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Old 04-26-2012, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
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I'm sure everyone's familiar with the statement: "Keep your mind open... but not so open your brain falls out!"

As somebody who's been absolutely obsessed with the subject of the paranormal ever since I started having paranormal experiences after moving into my "haunted house", I've ended up reading A LOT of material on the subject, knowing that none of it can be scientifically validated and that it is riddled with false perceptions and outright lies. I quickly found the paranormal world is like a minefield of stink-bombs with a few precious gems that look like stink bombs tossed haphazardly across the field. The trick is to find the gems before you get stunk out of the game!

It soon becomes apparent that to even attempt to make sense of the phenomenon, you need a practically supernatural mental filter and sense of intuition to sort the trash from the supposed real deal.


Mine's a work in progress but here are some tentative conclusions I've come to:

Just because it happens only "in the mind" doesn't mean it isn't a valid experience. For one, everything we know happens "in the mind" by default when our brains turn sensory information + past experience into a mental model of what we believe is the real world. There is no way to separate the observer from the observation, in other words...nothing, not even the greatest scientific discoveries are 100% objective.

Interestingly enough, the supernatural often seems to insert itself directly into that process; it isn't always (maybe even most often) actually physically happening outside of our heads. Perhaps this is because we aren't actually seeing supernatural phenomenon with our sensory organs but are perhaps picking up energy or patterns which are being directly translated into our "mental models" of what we are experiencing inside our brains.

This makes things difficult, because plenty of "normal" brain problems like hallucinations can make it extremely difficult to tell where the source of the phenomenon is. Still, something must be causing it for it to follow such regular patters across so many centuries, cultures and different minds, and it ain't psychosis or magic mushrooms, because usually nothing else is impaired for the witness!

If it follows normal understandable human psychology, it probably is from a human, not supernatural source.

Again, this can be dicey because if ghosts actually are disembodied human consciousness (aka: spirits) you would naturally expect them to act like humans too. For example, this famous ancient greek ghost story:

An ancient greek ghost story by Pliny the Younger

The moral of the story is the ghost was upset over it's improper burial and was haunting the place to get the attention of the living to rectify the problem... a theme that often pops up in ghost tales. But if it was really that simple, then why aren't billions upon billions of ghosts shaking us up daily to right their wrongs? Instead, while credible stories tend to come from places where strong emotions were felt, they otherwise happen with no real rhyme or reason.

In my own ghost story, I've seen the apparition of a 5 year old girl who died in my house in 1918. Certainly there were very strong feelings felt here at the time of her death, but what other reason would there be for the ghost of an innocent child to left hanging around here? Why would any god leave her to wander my hall forever, and why wouldn't her mother at least be around help/protect/make up for lost time/whatever... after she died here in the 1970s? It doesn't make sense, from the rational human perspective. Neither do the reasons for being there, or the way she appears, or the other "ghostly" phenomena that happen here. There is no message, no goal, no motive.

Another compelling case (this one a UFO) were the famous Belgian Triangle sightings:

Belgian UFO wave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the human perspective, it makes no sense that an extraterrestrial race curious about our world would cross the vastness of the galaxy only to go about investigating the planet like that.

On the other hand, stories of evangelizing Venusian "space brothers" who are very concerned with our pollution and nuclear bombs is completely humanistic and certainly very human in origin.

So anyway, I immediately become skeptical about a story that exhibits human motives and logic.

Finally, Make no assumptions. Our minds are practically built on our cultural expectations, and we hardly realize we are seeing the world that way. But stripped of cultural baggage, one man's fairy is essentially another's jin or another's grey space alien, or another's demon. It all depends on the perspective of the observer, which varies wildly, since nobody has quite the same mind.

Of course, skeptics will be quick to use that as a reason why it's all sourced from the human imagination, but if that's the case, why is the whole thing such a pervasive part of the human experience in the first place? I believe the "supernatural event" happens, has been happening ever since the beginning of humanity and will continue to happen... the only difference being how successive generations of people read their own meaning into it.

So how does your personal supernatural B.S. detector work? What do you buy/not buy when it comes to the supernatural and why/why not?

Last edited by Chango; 04-26-2012 at 08:20 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
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if aliens were to visit, why would they come to Belgium of all places? Sounds like military craft to me...UFO's but not from another planet...
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:17 AM
 
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I've always loved to be spooked.... and out of all the supernatural fictional things around (werewolves, vampires, ghosts... those sorts) ghosts seemed the most real.

I think ghosts come in residual hauntings most often. The girl in your house -- maybe that was a favorite playtime spot and her happiness being there imprinted itself on that spot and every once and while the "psychic recorder" plays. A good example of this is the ghost of Anne Bolyn that supposedly runs through a gallery to beg the Kings forgiveness. Her agony imprinted itself there and it happens over and over.

Rarely a ghost interacts. When an intelligent haunting happens, that's got to be cool....

And the one on my paranormal BS detector? Haunted graveyards. In everything I've ever read, a haunting is created by an extreme emotion, either out of a tragic death or murder or fear, or love.... so since people are generally just buried in a graveyard -- they aren't killed there -- why do people think they are haunted? What's to haunt?
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:39 PM
 
34,254 posts, read 20,539,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
So how does your personal supernatural B.S. detector work? What do you buy/not buy when it comes to the supernatural and why/why not?
Good question and a great OP.

I don't really call b.s. on topics so much as on individual stories. I don't really know what another person has experienced, so I rarely have a flashing red light going BS! BS!

I do know some people go WAY into their respective fave topics. One of my best friends in KS is that way about UFOs. He believes contact was made and he himself has had close encounters. He truly believes he or we are or may be part ET. I am oversimplifying, but the point is, his realm of life experience is way different from mine.

"They" won't come see me!

So I guess I buy into a lot until I can think it over. I also believe a lot of what other NDNs tell me. I especially love our legends. I like the Little People and my tribe has a legend that closely resembles bigfoot. So I am a true fan of ol' sasquatch!

Actually another friend has a drawing of a UFO in his living room that is about 8 feet across. He is also really into it. Guess I am more tolerant than the average bear.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:07 PM
 
222 posts, read 550,370 times
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Several things set my B.S. detector off.

When people claim that a paranormal situation occurred that allowed them to communicate with a deceased loved one, I generally assume that this is B.S. I think the person most of the time actually believes it, but I think that people want so badly to believe their loved ones still exist in some form that they'll put aside reason in order to believe that something mundane or imagined is proof of the afterlife.

Also, there is definitely a lot of self-selective bias when people have an experience that confirms their own belief system or religion. Basically any paranormal experience that provides people with validation of any sort has me questioning the whole thing, because that person clearly has an interest in wanting the experience to be true.

And then of course some people just want attention.
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Old 04-29-2012, 05:28 PM
 
15,639 posts, read 26,263,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMG721 View Post
When people claim that a paranormal situation occurred that allowed them to communicate with a deceased loved one, I generally assume that this is B.S. I think the person most of the time actually believes it, but I think that people want so badly to believe their loved ones still exist in some form that they'll put aside reason in order to believe that something mundane or imagined is proof of the afterlife.
I believe you're right here. The info given alwasy seems very general... and I have questions!

If they are all together up there in the after life, why can't they tell me where great great grandpa Ben is buried? or when Great grandma died?

This is IMPORTANT and I NEED TO KNOW.
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
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I used to enjoy reading bigfoot encounters. I don't necessarily believe such a creature exists, but as a child the idea terrified and amazed me for some reason, so even now occasionally I'll read a few encounters. The thing is, the idea of an unidentified primate living deep in the wilderness, possibly on the verge of extinction, very skittish and therefore rarely seen by humans, doesn't seem that unbelievable to me (disregarding those who take bigfoot in the alien/shape-shifting direction). I don't think it's all that likely, but at least the idea is conceivable to me. Because of that, it's pretty easy to categorize encounters:

1. Witness actually saw or heard something he/she couldn't identify, even if it may just be an established animal (bear, etc).

2. "Witness" is just flat-out lying for whatever reason.

3. Witness actually saw something but it was probably all in his/her head.

The first two categories are easy, but sometimes the third is tricky or even impossible to discern. As for ghost encounters, my B.S. detector doesn't work so well because, frankly, all ghost stories seem unbelievable to me. I mean, if someone is just cobbling together the scariest bits from every urban legend in the book, that's pretty obvious. But I think a lot of people really do experience something they attribute to ghosts, spirits, demons, etc. But I have a very hard time believing that those things are actually ghosts, spirits, etc because I have such a hard time believing those things exist. Some encounters, I'm sure, are products of our very complex but imperfect brains. It's mind boggling what our brains can trick us into seeing and believing. However, I'm not closed to the possibility that some people truly do see things that are not simply in their heads. But instead of something supernatural or spiritual, I feel it's probably merely some part of the natural order of things that we haven't figured out yet.
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:47 PM
 
34,254 posts, read 20,539,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
I used to enjoy reading bigfoot encounters. I don't necessarily believe such a creature exists, but as a child the idea terrified and amazed me for some reason, so even now occasionally I'll read a few encounters. The thing is, the idea of an unidentified primate living deep in the wilderness, possibly on the verge of extinction, very skittish and therefore rarely seen by humans, doesn't seem that unbelievable to me (disregarding those who take bigfoot in the alien/shape-shifting direction). I don't think it's all that likely, but at least the idea is conceivable to me. Because of that, it's pretty easy to categorize encounters:

1. Witness actually saw or heard something he/she couldn't identify, even if it may just be an established animal (bear, etc).

2. "Witness" is just flat-out lying for whatever reason.

3. Witness actually saw something but it was probably all in his/her head.

The first two categories are easy, but sometimes the third is tricky or even impossible to discern. As for ghost encounters, my B.S. detector doesn't work so well because, frankly, all ghost stories seem unbelievable to me. I mean, if someone is just cobbling together the scariest bits from every urban legend in the book, that's pretty obvious. But I think a lot of people really do experience something they attribute to ghosts, spirits, demons, etc. But I have a very hard time believing that those things are actually ghosts, spirits, etc because I have such a hard time believing those things exist. Some encounters, I'm sure, are products of our very complex but imperfect brains. It's mind boggling what our brains can trick us into seeing and believing. However, I'm not closed to the possibility that some people truly do see things that are not simply in their heads. But instead of something supernatural or spiritual, I feel it's probably merely some part of the natural order of things that we haven't figured out yet.
^ I agree. I don't watch that bigfoot hunter show (BFRO) anymore. They get so close, hear sounds, then turn in for the night. Always so close...

For me, no explanation to skeptics is needed on any of my beliefs. I always look to the obvious reasons. Like my dogs staring at a spot towards the ceiling. Ghostly encounter? More like, hello?!, we live in the country and our house is home to a lot of house mice.



Some things are just unexplainable.
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,818,947 times
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I can't buy most of cryptozoology myself.

But Bigfoot has been useful during camping trips as an explanation for why all the beer is missing in the morning.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,827 posts, read 7,329,676 times
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the encounters I find fascinating are those that come out of nowhere. When the person is not reading a book or watching TV programs about UFO's or ghosts and then sees one...
I have heard so many stories told by my mother and grandmother that I often wondered about aliens and what happens to a person's "aura" when they die. My grandmother especially had visits from ghostly soldiers at night long after WW2 was over; she had "3 men in black" at her door after a UFO abduction long before the movie came out. When I was a kid I used to imagine I was part alien and that a tracking device was implanted in my arm.
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