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A couple questions...If the 'Tic tac' was actually a secret experimental aircraft (man made), why would they be operating it out on the ocean, far from any air base...(places like Area 51 that design and build experimental aircraft are in secluded and remote locations for a very good reason...(THEY DO NOT WANT ANYONE TO SEE THESE AIRCRAFT)
Next, the pilot would have to have a death wish to be engaged with regular military aircraft and NOT announce themselves as 'friendlies', even if it was an unmanned aircraft, if it was experimental and had the capabilities the pilots reported, the risk of being shot down would be great, I dont believe they would risk such a valuable aircraft in this manner, especially over the open ocean, where it would be next to impossible to retrieve the wreckage if it was shot down.
Lastly, if this was truly a secret experimental aircraft, when the Pentagon was asked about it, they would have just said it was an experimental drone, or it was 'flares', or anything vague, so the public looses interest...the LAST thing they would do is suggest the craft was extraterrestrial.
They didn't suggest the objects were extraterrestrial - they just said they were unidentified. It might be a natural assumption, especially of those interested in the subject, to think "alien", but that's not what was said. Maybe the Navy just sort of likes playing games with the public and considers it a light-hearted subject (but I doubt that). The whole thing is admittedly pretty intriguing and very interesting.
Suppose the U.S. government developed a hypersonic drone and wanted to test the response of pilots and
flight personnel when they encounter one. They fly one near the Nimitz and observe the results. Note that only reason we know about the encounters is that the tapes were leaked. Which leak could itself be a further test, to see how the general public will react to sightings of the new technology.
I suppose it's possible, and only the commanding officer of the carrier fleet would know what was going on. I kinda doubt it though. If the radar guy and the pilots were telling the truth about the performance of the objects (going from 28,000 ft to 100 ft altitude in less than a second, etc.), then we really have a gold mine in our technolgy development. Don't think we do.
I suppose it's possible, and only the commanding officer of the carrier fleet would know what was going on. I kinda doubt it though. If the radar guy and the pilots were telling the truth about the performance of the objects (going from 28,000 ft to 100 ft altitude in less than a second, etc.), then we really have a gold mine in our technolgy development. Don't think we do.
I don't think so either - that performance is not only beyond our capabilities, it's outside the bounds of physics as we understand them.
The "products" referenced in the list are the papers issued by the authors -- not some hypothetical hardware developed by them or the government. NASA has or had a project investigating the possibility of building an Alcubierre FTL drive -- that doesn't mean they're actually building one - we don't have the technology for that now. They're called thought experiments - some of them result in actual experiments (or deeper insight into a problem), many of them don't go anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg
That's correct. I was the manager of about 50 simultaneous university and small business contracts that were meant to harvest the creative ideas of scientists and professors for a wide variety of technical subjects. Subjects like "warp drive" and "antigravity" were not unusual and were expected. Value was only $10K each, which is a very small portion of a loaded man-year. You don't get any type of hardware or experimentation for such a low amount - just minor development of ideas. If an idea seems to have merit, then it can be pursued further. AATIP studies were no doubt the same way.
Yep, these are just 'reports'. You have no idea what's in them, positive or negative, and nothing in that list even hints at 'extraterrestrial' technology. There are a lot of idiots who toss out half-baked ideas and then want the agencies to take them seriously and spend boatloads of time and money 'looking into' them.
Years ago some half-wit came up with the bright idea that we could use ESP to spy on the Russians. We spent a whole crapload of time and money conducting double-blind studies trying to make this fruit-loopy idea work. Guess what. It didn't. It turned out that 'ESP' and 'remote viewing' were hogwash, useless and worthless.
But, there had to be a 'product' to justify the time and expense. That 'product' was a 'report' comprising hundreds and hundreds of pages delineating methodology and results, a lengthy and wordy summation that could have (and should have) been stated in a single sentence (*before* the enormous waste of time and money)- "ESP is bullscat and you are a complete idiot for even suggesting it."
But that's how our 'government' works- fruitcakes with 'influence' (provided by other fruitcakes) get to waste our tax dollars by directing our agencies to chase chimeras.
I really wish I could say more, but I know what happens to people who say things they shouldn't. At one point in time I worked for DARPA (in a 'private'' capacity) in conjunction with the Air Force OSI, in the business of trying to make sure that secrets stayed secret.
I can say this much though- any of these yo-yos walking around claiming that they know all of these whacky things...wouldn't be, if they actually knew anything. When real secrets get loose, people end up in prison or otherwise convinced that it is better for them to remain silent...well, most of the time...
Suppose the U.S. government developed a hypersonic drone and wanted to test the response of pilots and
flight personnel when they encounter one. They fly one near the Nimitz and observe the results. Note that only reason we know about the encounters is that the tapes were leaked. Which leak could itself be a further test, to see how the general public will react to sightings of the new technology.
The "products" referenced in the list are the papers issued by the authors -- not some hypothetical hardware developed by them or the government. NASA has or had a project investigating the possibility of building an Alcubierre FTL drive -- that doesn't mean they're actually building one - we don't have the technology for that now. They're called thought experiments - some of them result in actual experiments (or deeper insight into a problem), many of them don't go anywhere.
If you read the letter, it says "produced" not thought experiments or investigating or speculation. I can see how products can be reports produced, but I do not think this is a bunch of scientists who have been asked to speculate. These are extremely well-known names which we have seen before in other developing areas of military technology. They KNOW what is available and what is possible and have probably been briefed as to what the enemy has.
rstevens62 - I do not think the US or any other country would roll out a game-changing technology for the other side to see. Neither would they "test it on the best we have" either, because they do not want the other side to have any chance to see ANY of its capabilities. That is why historically these secret things have been tested at night over Area 51 or wherever nd only a few people know when and where the tests will be. (cf Bob Lazar was privvy to Area 51 testing schedule)
The Stealth technology was secret for decades and the (Blackbird) technology was only brought out after many years. Imagine if you had technology which was not just 20 years ahead, but technology which was 100 years ahead of your competitor - you probably would keep it for the surprise value in a future war. Or..you might just use it off-world where none of the people could see it. Most spy satellites are pointing AT Earth, not away from it.
Although I know these reports of UAPs are decades old, some people will not believe the conspiracy theorists simply because it has not been confirmed by the government. Once this is confirmed by government it allows some people (and even some on here) the permission to consider such things and maybe even to believe such things are possible. Sometimes people need "permission" to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg
I was the manager of about 50 simultaneous university and small business contracts that were meant to harvest the creative ideas of scientists and professors for a wide variety of technical subjects. Subjects like "warp drive" and "antigravity" were not unusual and were expected. Value was only $10K each, which is a very small portion of a loaded man-year. You don't get any type of hardware or experimentation for such a low amount - just minor development of ideas. If an idea seems to have merit, then it can be pursued further. AATIP studies were no doubt the same way.
Yes, I believe you, BUT I bet the request for such information you issued made it quite clear these were ideas you were looking for in papers NOT products, which is what they are suggesting here. Any company who wants to develop something for the government is going to have to demonstrate a) expertise in the right areas, and b) a willingness to spend some of its own money up front before the government puts its money up as backing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg
They didn't suggest the objects were extraterrestrial - they just said they were unidentified. It might be a natural assumption, especially of those interested in the subject, to think "alien", but that's not what was said. Maybe the Navy just sort of likes playing games with the public and considers it a light-hearted subject (but I doubt that). The whole thing is admittedly pretty intriguing and very interesting.
Yes, we have to watch the language very very carefully and these guys are trained to infer and (mis)direct along the lines that they want the audience to go.
...
Quote:
I suppose it's possible, and only the commanding officer of the carrier fleet would know what was going on. I kinda doubt it though. If the radar guy and the pilots were telling the truth about the performance of the objects (going from 28,000 ft to 100 ft altitude in less than a second, etc.), then we really have a gold mine in our technolgy development. Don't think we do.
In another thread we were talking about Corey Goode and the Secret Space Program. IF there was such a thing, and one side(USA?) had been given or traded technology with ET, then you can be sure other ETs are going to trade or give technology with enemies(China?,Russia?) of the first country. I am sure there are disagreements between races over who gets what resource and if you can persuade other people(humans) to fight your wars for you, then so much the better. The commanding officer was the one who allowed the airforce personnel to come in and take the hard drives from the Hawkeye when it landed. (see my synopsis in the Unidentified TV program thread)
Just because the capabilities are beyond our science, does not mean it is impossible. If technology is far, far advanced of our own, then it is likely that other 'laws of physics' have been discovered which allow travel at superspeed without exerting G forces on the body. [speculation]Possibly the craft partly goes into another dimension and pops up again in some other place. This is why there is a "ghosting image" between start-end points?[/speculation]
The letter says:
"The purpose of AATIP was to investigate foreign advanced aerospace weapon threats from the present out to the next 40 years." It does not say speculate what they might have or might develop in the next 40 years, but investgate. There is no "threat" yet if your enemy does not have the technology. This is no mind-exercise in speculation but a series of reasoned opinions on existing enemy threats. These scientists are masters in their field of science, they are the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zymer
Years ago some half-wit came up with the bright idea that we could use ESP to spy on the Russians. We spent a whole crapload of time and money conducting double-blind studies trying to make this fruit-loopy idea work. Guess what. It didn't. It turned out that 'ESP' and 'remote viewing' were hogwash, useless and worthless.
I dont care who you worked for, I will not believe that the government funded Remote Viewing for over 25 years and it did not deliver. The science was done at Stanford Research Institute but Hal Puthof and Russell Targ initially, so are you saying they dont know what they are doing? Because if so, then I believe you need to think again.
I know that this is the message the government wants to convey since they declared they shut down the program a few years ago and you are doing your bit to convey that message out into the world. Good man.
RV is still used today, even though it is officially denied.
If you read the letter, it says "produced" not thought experiments or investigating or speculation. I can see how products can be reports produced, but I do not think this is a bunch of scientists who have been asked to speculate. These are extremely well-known names which we have seen before in other developing areas of military technology. They KNOW what is available and what is possible and have probably been briefed as to what the enemy has.
rstevens62 - I do not think the US or any other country would roll out a game-changing technology for the other side to see. Neither would they "test it on the best we have" either, because they do not want the other side to have any chance to see ANY of its capabilities. That is why historically these secret things have been tested at night over Area 51 or wherever nd only a few people know when and where the tests will be. (cf Bob Lazar was privvy to Area 51 testing schedule)
The Stealth technology was secret for decades and the (Blackbird) technology was only brought out after many years. Imagine if you had technology which was not just 20 years ahead, but technology which was 100 years ahead of your competitor - you probably would keep it for the surprise value in a future war. Or..you might just use it off-world where none of the people could see it. Most spy satellites are pointing AT Earth, not away from it.
Although I know these reports of UAPs are decades old, some people will not believe the conspiracy theorists simply because it has not been confirmed by the government. Once this is confirmed by government it allows some people (and even some on here) the permission to consider such things and maybe even to believe such things are possible. Sometimes people need "permission" to believe.
Yes, I believe you, BUT I bet the request for such information you issued made it quite clear these were ideas you were looking for in papers NOT products, which is what they are suggesting here. Any company who wants to develop something for the government is going to have to demonstrate a) expertise in the right areas, and b) a willingness to spend some of its own money up front before the government puts its money up as backing.
Yes, we have to watch the language very very carefully and these guys are trained to infer and (mis)direct along the lines that they want the audience to go.
...
In another thread we were talking about Corey Goode and the Secret Space Program. IF there was such a thing, and one side(USA?) had been given or traded technology with ET, then you can be sure other ETs are going to trade or give technology with enemies(China?,Russia?) of the first country. I am sure there are disagreements between races over who gets what resource and if you can persuade other people(humans) to fight your wars for you, then so much the better. The commanding officer was the one who allowed the airforce personnel to come in and take the hard drives from the Hawkeye when it landed. (see my synopsis in the Unidentified TV program thread)
Just because the capabilities are beyond our science, does not mean it is impossible. If technology is far, far advanced of our own, then it is likely that other 'laws of physics' have been discovered which allow travel at superspeed without exerting G forces on the body. [speculation]Possibly the craft partly goes into another dimension and pops up again in some other place. This is why there is a "ghosting image" between start-end points?[/speculation]
The letter says:
"The purpose of AATIP was to investigate foreign advanced aerospace weapon threats from the present out to the next 40 years." It does not say speculate what they might have or might develop in the next 40 years, but investgate. There is no "threat" yet if your enemy does not have the technology. This is no mind-exercise in speculation but a series of reasoned opinions on existing enemy threats. These scientists are masters in their field of science, they are the best.
I dont care who you worked for, I will not believe that the government funded Remote Viewing for over 25 years and it did not deliver. The science was done at Stanford Research Institute but Hal Puthof and Russell Targ initially, so are you saying they dont know what they are doing? Because if so, then I believe you need to think again.
I know that this is the message the government wants to convey since they declared they shut down the program a few years ago and you are doing your bit to convey that message out into the world. Good man.
RV is still used today, even though it is officially denied.
Oh yes, the US still has a 'Psy-warfare' dept, we just dont ever hear anything about what they are doing!
Im just curious...what do you believe their purpose is in all this UFO/alien talk today, implying that these aircraft are built off planet? Even if none of its true and its a mind game...for what purpose? Ive mentioned the theory of a 'fake alien invasion', but just wanting to know some of the other theories? Honestly, I cannot think of ONE other explanation...as to why the Dept of Defense would be alluding to 'aliens and UFOs'.
If you read the letter, it says "produced" not thought experiments or investigating or speculation. I can see how products can be reports produced, but I do not think this is a bunch of scientists who have been asked to speculate. These are extremely well-known names which we have seen before in other developing areas of military technology. They KNOW what is available and what is possible and have probably been briefed as to what the enemy has.
I did read the letter. The products produced were clearly the reports; all of the research I did with NASA and the DoD resulted in printed reports and publications. In that world, product = paper. \Why would a government produce reports verifying success at developing such game changing tech and then make them unclassified?
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The whole thing is admittedly pretty intriguing and very interesting.
