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A part of the problem in the UK, IMO, is the lack of availability of good-quality rental housing at reasonable prices.
In the US in many areas rents are disproportianately high compared to house values and anything decent goes like hot cakes. Where we are a house valued at maybe $100k with a reasonable sized garden and not in a subdivision can easily rent for $800 per month.
There are, of course, two sides to that problem! In 2006, I owned a house in East Anglia which I didn't need to live in (I was in Germany) so I let it out to a local guy who was having difficulty in finding accommodation for a (very) reasonable rent. That worked fine - for a few months - then I moved to the US and he stopped paying. He 'did a runner' owing me a few thousand for damages (and owing the council and the utility companies nearly a year's worth.) I would have been far better off just leaving the house empty. 'Renting it out' cost me more than I would've paid to keep the heating on tickover, have somebody keep an eye on it and pay the rates. I sold the house and reduced the number of available rental properties in that area by 100%. This is exactly why we didn't rent our home in the UK when we moved to the US. The rental money would barely have covered the mortgage payments.So glad we sold as the value of the house is lower now.
I have a house in Germany which I leave empty during the winter (apart when friends and family use it, as they're doing at the moment) but if I did want to rent that out I could find a tenant easily.
The rent would be set (effectively) by the council/local market.
I - as landlord - would have a long list of obligations.
The tenant would have a long list of obligations.
If either of us was to default on those obligations, we would find ourselves before a court. If the tenant 'did a runner' and moved anywhere else in Germany, the State would find him and bring her before a court.
There is a good supply of reasonably-priced good quality accommodation (even where I live, in a popular tourist area) because the rental contracts are fair to both sides and are enforced rigidly.
In the UK, it's often fairly easy to move from South to North but a move in the other direction can be prohibitively expensive! One of my brothers lived and worked in Cambridge for some years. He had a modest house with an affordable (just) mortgage.
He moved to Newcastle, sold the house in Cambridge and bought another there. - He got rather more for his money, though hardly a palace.
House prices went up in both Cambridge and in Newcastle ... but the price rises in Cambridge dwarfed those in Newcastle. When was this? Are you talking percentage rises?
He was offered another job in Cambridge but decided (perhaps wisely) that he couldn't afford to take it. There was more pay involved - but the move would've meant taking on a huge mortgage.
If you live in the North and can't get the sort of job you want because the job vacancies all seem to be 'dahn Sarf' you may indeed be tempted to move. (I came to the UK in 1968 precisely for that reason.)
But if you're going to move; and if that move is going to involve you in hefty accommodation costs, why not look further afield?
In the USA if you buy and sell you have to remember it costs around 6% in estate agent fees. As the seller you pay 3% to your (selling agent) and 3% to the buyers agent. If you buy only you don't pay anything.
My son (currently living in S. Yorks) will soon be deciding where he's going to go for a job. He will (or should) have no problem finding a job.
He could:
1. Get a job in S Yorks/Midlands. There are jobs available, but the pay rates are better elsewhere.
2. Get a job in the South East. There are jobs available, they are well-paid but the cost of housing is extremely high (And he's got a family, so he's going to need a 4-bed house.)
3. Get a job in Europe (probably in Germany.) He's been told he could get a job tomorrow - and the pay would be significantly higher than it would be anywhere in the UK.
4. Get a job in the US. Again, he would be 'in demand' and he has no problems with employment eligibility.
Do you mean visa eligibility? What "in demand" skills and qualifications does he have? What visa would he be looking for?
I remember the 'brain drain' of the late 50's/60's.
I wonder whether the high cost of housing and the geographical wide range of salaries in the UK is going to trigger another?
I think it's vital to remember that the Govt is the biggest employer in the UK and, apart from in London area, there are no geographical differences in salaries. I have no idea how some young people working for the GOVT will ever be able to afford to buy property.
Just thought I'd post a chart showing the difference between the average yearly wage and average house price in Cornwall, SW England and three northern districts..
Bearing in mind that Cornwall is England's poorest county, the other three have far higher wages and better job opportunities. Not all of northern England is an economic backwater with few jobs, there are areas that proved well-paying jobs. There may be a lot of wealth in a town like Harrogate, but the wealth just resides there, it is generated in Leeds between 6am - 6pm in an office block owned by Lloyds/HSBC/Nat West/Barclays/generic financial corporation.
The cultural north/south divide in the UK isn't as extreme as in the US, but the economic divide is, and the difference is, northern England is not experiencing a boom in population, like the US south. Some cities are, but most of northern England remains firmly in the doldrums.
I said
In the UK you don't see such huge differences in property prices apart from London.
There are HUGE differences in salaries North to South and also EAST/WEST in the USA.
Average nurse (RN) salary in NC is around $57k but in California it's $85k and $74k for New York and New Jersey.
Of course I didn't say that it exist at all
Wages vary quite a bit from north to south in the UK, granted, it's primarily London/SE where the difference is greatest, but it's still a marked difference whichever way you look at it, and there is no denying that the vast majority of UK wealth is generated in the South, and that is where people live the longest, earn the most, where schools are better and poverty is far lower. As a consequence, it's a lot more expensive.
Secondly, the US is far larger than the UK, so I don't find the difference to be that astonishing. The UK is very unequal for a relatively small country. I guess the difference is more extreme in the US though, so I apologise, as it is not my area of expertise. The general crux of my point is, the difference is noticeable.
However, you are right in saying that governmental jobs do not vary much in pay across the UK. The biggest difference in pay between private and public sector jobs.
Last edited by dunno what to put here; 01-07-2013 at 02:38 PM..
Originally Posted by Manuel de Vol
A part of the problem in the UK, IMO, is the lack of availability of good-quality rental housing at reasonable prices.
In the US in many areas rents are disproportianately high compared to house values and anything decent goes like hot cakes. Where we are a house valued at maybe $100k with a reasonable sized garden and not in a subdivision can easily rent for $800 per month.
That can indeed be a problem. When we came back in Jan 07 we moved to Vicksburg, MS. There were no (as in zero!) 3 or 4 bed houses for rent. - I could get an apartment. but if I wanted a house, I found I would have to buy. I did so and when we left in 2008 to go back to Germany (just after the local market had stalled) I rented it out. (Another disaster, but I won't bore you with that one. - I managed to come out ahead in the end, though.)
There are, of course, two sides to that problem! In 2006, I owned a house in East Anglia which I didn't need to live in (I was in Germany) so I let it out to a local guy who was having difficulty in finding accommodation for a (very) reasonable rent. That worked fine - for a few months - then I moved to the US and he stopped paying. He 'did a runner' owing me a few thousand for damages (and owing the council and the utility companies nearly a year's worth.) I would have been far better off just leaving the house empty. 'Renting it out' cost me more than I would've paid to keep the heating on tickover, have somebody keep an eye on it and pay the rates. I sold the house and reduced the number of available rental properties in that area by 100%.
This is exactly why we didn't rent our home in the UK when we moved to the US. The rental money would barely have covered the mortgage payments.So glad we sold as the value of the house is lower now.
..
In the UK, it's often fairly easy to move from South to North but a move in the other direction can be prohibitively expensive! One of my brothers lived and worked in Cambridge for some years. He had a modest house with an affordable (just) mortgage.
He moved to Newcastle, sold the house in Cambridge and bought another there. - He got rather more for his money, though hardly a palace.
House prices went up in both Cambridge and in Newcastle ... but the price rises in Cambridge dwarfed those in Newcastle.
When was this? Are you talking percentage rises?
AFAIR; he sold his house (3-bed semi) in King's Hedges in about 1989 and moved to Newcastle. He stayed in Newcastle for a while then went to Kiruna for a few years (during which time he kept the house in Newcastle.) When he came back, he was offered a job in Cambridge but the money he would've received from the sale of the house in Newcastle would've been only sufficient for a deposit on his old house in Cambridge (had that particular house been up for sale.)
If you live in the North and can't get the sort of job you want because the job vacancies all seem to be 'dahn Sarf' you may indeed be tempted to move. (I came to the UK in 1968 precisely for that reason.)
But if you're going to move; and if that move is going to involve you in hefty accommodation costs, why not look further afield?
In the USA if you buy and sell you have to remember it costs around 6% in estate agent fees.
As the seller you pay 3% to your (selling agent) and 3% to the buyers agent. If you buy only you don't pay anything.
Realtor fees in the US are higher than they are in the UK (though lower than in Germany.) I take your point about the lack of availability of rental properties in some areas, (Particularly the lack of certain types of property) - Perhaps that's a spin-off of the recent market problems.
My son has quite a good house at the moment - a house he is renting from somebody who is working in Australia for a few years. Hopefully he'll be able to stay there for at least another 6 months, but should the owner return, he'll be very lucky to find something as good and whatever he finds is likely to cost him rather more than he's paying now.
My son (currently living in S. Yorks) will soon be deciding where he's going to go for a job. He will (or should) have no problem finding a job.
He could:
1. Get a job in S Yorks/Midlands. There are jobs available, but the pay rates are better elsewhere.
2. Get a job in the South East. There are jobs available, they are well-paid but the cost of housing is extremely high (And he's got a family, so he's going to need a 4-bed house.)
3. Get a job in Europe (probably in Germany.) He's been told he could get a job tomorrow - and the pay would be significantly higher than it would be anywhere in the UK.
4. Get a job in the US. Again, he would be 'in demand' and he has no problems with employment eligibility.
Do you mean visa eligibility? What "in demand" skills and qualifications does he have? What visa would he be looking for?
He doesn't need a visa. - He has multiple nationalities (acquired at birth.) He can live and work in the UK, rest of the EU or US with no limitations.
He has (or will have, if he keeps working at it ) a pretty good Masters' in Electronics engineering.
Demand for Electronics engineers in Germany is very high and he's already been told he would have no difficulty in getting a job there.
I was at I/ITSEC in Orlando a few weeks ago and (as I usually do) I did a bit of 'nosing about' on his behalf to check out employment prospects amongst the exhibiting companies. The exhibitors came from all over the world and I found that optimism was somewhat higher this year than last. The demand for engineers seems to be fairly strong both in Europe and in the US.
The cultural north/south divide in the UK isn't as extreme as in the US, but the economic divide is, and the difference is, northern England is not experiencing a boom in population, like the US south. Some cities are, but most of northern England remains firmly in the doldrums.
I said
In the UK you don't see such huge differences in property prices apart from London.
There are HUGE differences in salaries North to South and also EAST/WEST in the USA.
Average nurse (RN) salary in NC is around $57k but in California it's $85k and $74k for New York and New Jersey.
Of course I didn't say that it exist at all
the data I used was for the UK - but I only listed some of the areas of England in my post.
exactly- or many other places
How does Las Vegas compare to "Windsor". What an an awful place.Would rather live in Idaho or the North Of England any day. It's the epitomy of the worst things about the USA.
Windsor isn't an awful place, its actually very nice . Really, I loved Windsor but you need at least half a million pounds to buy anything decent there, and even then availability is limited.
I should point out that i live in Henderson, NV: few people actually live in Vegas. the downtiwn is either condos, million dollar gated communities or the homeless. Now I have space, a house and pool I couldn't have ever afforded in Windsor and I enjoy the outdoors. I have national parks close, California for a weekend if you wish and an airport connected to everywhere. Im surrounded by mountains, traffic is light compared to south east of England, and the sky is always blue!!
Windsor isn't an awful place, its actually very nice . Really, I loved Windsor but you need at least half a million pounds to buy anything decent there, and even then availability is limited.
I should point out that i live in Henderson, NV: few people actually live in Vegas. the downtiwn is either condos, million dollar gated communities or the homeless. Now I have space, a house and pool I couldn't have ever afforded in Windsor and I enjoy the outdoors. I have national parks close, California for a weekend if you wish and an airport connected to everywhere. Im surrounded by mountains, traffic is light compared to south east of England, and the sky is always blue!!
I didn't mean Windsor wasn't nice-quite the opposite-but as you say-expensive.
I wondered how you had adjusted to the change in landscape. We visited LV 3 yrs ago and I was really looking forward to it, but I really missed being able to sit outside anywhere and have a coffee. Felt like I'd been in a shopping mall for 3 days!
I think we looked at some model homes In Henderson and I loved Red rock Canyon, but not sure how I would feel about having that landscape as home. Changes very little through the seasons.
Curious as we are very tentatively thinking about Southern Spain as an option for living.
Agree re the weather ,traffic and what you can get for money housewise. We have an acre, boat dock etc and minutes to everything (except a walky downtown area -which is what we are really missing I think)for the price of our 3 bed semi in the NE England)
Returning to UK for anything other than a short period is not an option for us realisitically- ie house prices, weather, jobs etc.
Enjoy!
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. Really, I loved Windsor but you need at least half a million pounds to buy anything decent there, and even then availability is limited. 
