Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I agree with your post, and you do have to take stats with a pinch of salt.
However, having lived in London, Windsor, Reading, South Wales, Exeter, Guildford in the UK and Chicago, and Las Vegas in the US I have to say (and this may come as a huge surprise) that I feel a lot safer here than in any of the UK towns I have lived.
There are certainly more gun murders in Chicago than Windsor but I have never ever seen a fight or got into any confrontation with anyone on the street or in a bar in the US cities I have lived whereas street fights were common in the UK towns - even in Windsor. The amount of stabbings and acts of violence with bottles in South Wales and Exeter were almost unbelievable when I think back.
I have heard your experience echoed on "British Expats in America" forums repeatedly. Couldn't believe how many Brits said they knew gun violence was greater here, yet felt safer in day-to-day life.
Vice versa ... I have read "American Expats in the U.K." speak of their complete shock at witnessing senseless violence just walking down the street in "good" areas in the U.K. Aside from witnessing street fights with bottles and knives, they were shocked at the brutality in general ... stuff like a guy backhanding his girlfriend across the face in public ... and no one reacting.
The other shock was the drinking culture, which I suppose is a big part of the violence. Whatever it is, few Americans expect to see it in the U.K.
I have lived in America my entire life and never seen a single fight or act of violence - Miami, Orlando, Dallas, and now in the Georgia mountains. It's generally something that occurs in very bad areas.
I agree with your post, and you do have to take stats with a pinch of salt. However, having lived in London, Windsor, Reading, South Wales, Exeter, Guildford in the UK and Chicago, and Las Vegas in the US I have to say (and this may come as a huge surprise) that I feel a lot safer here than in any of the UK towns I have lived. There are certainly more gun murders in Chicago than Windsor but I have never ever seen a fight or got into any confrontation with anyone on the street or in a bar in the US cities I have lived whereas street fights were common in the UK towns - even in Windsor. The amount of stabbings and acts of violence with bottles in South Wales and Exeter were almost unbelievable when I think back.
Well pub violence was certainly prevalent when I was young going to pubs in London but if you were to compare the most deprived areas of the UK to the worst areas in the United States there would be no comparison.
An exchange between reporters from Baltimore and the United Kingdom happened a couple of years back and the British reporter was on a murder scene within 15 minutes. Whereas the trip to Moss Side recently on the return visit made by the Baltimore crime reporter ended with him being somewhat bemused by the area's high-crime reputation. Even the slowest days of a Baltimore Cop would surpass the most action packed days of a Moss Side police officer was his overall analysis.
He was more than under-whelmed by the 'notoriety' on offer. His reaction was "Is this it?". He thought the area to be fairly mild and the kind of incidents he was called to amounted more to teenagers smoking weed. The most serious offences happen far more frequently and regularly in big American cities.
I often hear the argument made that although America is a land of extremes that most of the crime is located within certain areas. I believe this is particularly true of Chicago and I also know someone who enjoys the lifestyle in Las Vegas. However when he attempted to move to Los Angeles he returned to Las Vegas very quickly as he had serious quality of life issues in the neighbourhood he moved to. You may have a point about drinking culture and propensity for bar brawls but then when the Outlaw MC's get together for a shindig in the Casino's I hear the word bar brawl is a bit of an understatement.
The trouble with these snapshot views is that you're in danger of sweeping the real crime statistics under the carpet. The statistics don't lie and overall America is streets ahead in terms of crime. Manhattan has far more crime than you would see in London's poorest borough and London's poorest borough would be seen as meek and mild compared to East Brooklyn or the South Bronx. Or even gentrifying areas like Washington Heights.
As for Windsor I went there once on a night out years ago ian and yes it did seem like a typically British Saturday night kind of town with raucous revelers etc... I was young at the time though so probably didn't feel threatened by the atmosphere as I was more than three sheets to the wind myself by all accounts most likely. I found Windsor was quite a nice place compared to some of the places I drank as a young man though I did hear it could "kick off" from friends I knew who were more familiar with the area than me so I certainly believe it can get quite rowdy at times. Most city centres do on weekends in the UK.
However I will add I have been to the nicest neighbourhood in the North Bronx to see a friend play in a band when I was in NYC and the kind of bar brawls I witnessed at kicking out time there you would only see in the roughest most out of the way parts of London.
Certainly every town centre I've lived near has these kind of issues but in London I have to say I rarely come across brawls in the streets late at night these days and I'm often walking through the centre of town. I can't remember the last time I felt threatened walking around London. I did drink in some very rowdy pubs at one time and did see these patterns of behaviour so I am willing to concede that perhaps it still goes on but that because I'm a little older I tend not to be around these kinds of places anymore.
Last edited by Fear&Whiskey; 01-14-2013 at 06:01 PM..
In spite of the recent mass shootings that grab headlines, MOST U.S. gun violence is criminal-to-criminal in the U.S. The "War on Drugs" is a dismal failure and increases criminal activity, drug gangs, and gun crimes, in the same way Prohibition increased crime.
I think this is why we can have more gun deaths, yet paradoxically feel safer and less exposed to violence in day-to-day life.
Well pub violence was certainly prevalent when I was young going to pubs in London but if you were to compare the most deprived areas of the UK to the worst areas in the United States there would be no comparison.
Generally, we don't expect to see violence at a drinking establishment at all ... unless you're in a very bad area where no decent citizen would be in the first place.
Generally, we don't expect to see violence at a drinking establishment at all ... unless you're in a very bad area where no decent citizen would be in the first place.
Do Brits expect it?
I moved here from Ireland when I was 17 and in my experience it wouldn't surprise me no and there were certain places where I would expect it to be honest and I've witnessed my fair share of pub fights to be sure.
These days it would certainly depend on where I was drinking at any given moment in time. In a town centre late at night in the kind of places young people congregate would be where I'd expect it more.
In a pub in central London late at night by the Theatre yes it certainly would and I would say the majority of pubs in central London are very safe. The biggest danger in London would be losing your bearings and stumbling around drunk around the backstreets of an area like Soho where alot of drug users tend to congregate looking for a punter to scam.
In spite of the recent mass shootings that grab headlines, MOST U.S. gun violence is criminal-to-criminal in the U.S. The "War on Drugs" is a dismal failure and increases criminal activity, drug gangs, and gun crimes, in the same way Prohibition increased crime.
I think this is why we can have more gun deaths, yet paradoxically feel safer and less exposed to violence in day-to-day life.
I can see that point of view and I've heard it from relatives and friends in the United States but it is hard to gauge an accurate picture on the violent crime statistics when the recording measures used vary so drastically between crime fighting agencies in the UK and the US.
What we do know for certain is that the worst the US has to offer makes the UK look pretty tame by comparison. But perhaps the mildest town centres in the UK would be more raucous and boisterous than their counterparts in the USA.
I'm willing to accept that point. I've heard Chicago especially is very safe away from the high-crime areas.
I can see that point of view and I've heard it from relatives and friends in the United States but it is hard to gauge an accurate picture on the violent crime statistics when the recording measures used vary so drastically between crime fighting agencies in the UK and the US.
Google "War on Drugs" and see all the wonderful (sarcasm) benefits it's brought to the U.S.
It seems the more we spend on this "war", the better the drugs, the better the profits, and the worse the crime from drug lords protecting their valuable turf.
The last thing these gangsters want is to see drugs legalized, because it would eat into their profits. High profits and illegality is the reason for the crime and the U.S. is a huge market.
Whatever picture gun fanatics in the States are trying to paint about violent crime in the UK the simple fact of the matter is you are FAR more likely to be murdered in the USA, the amount of murders by shootings in the US is astronomical for a developed country and this 'you are far more likely to have a 'punchup in the UK' argument is laughable!
Whatever picture gun fanatics in the States are trying to paint about violent crime in the UK the simple fact of the matter is you are FAR more likely to be murdered in the USA, the amount of murders by shootings in the US is astronomical for a developed country and this 'you are far more likely to have a 'punchup in the UK' argument is laughable!
Yes, but we are on a thread about violence in society, not gun ownership or gun murder in the US. I have made my views perfectly clear on guns. Violence in the UK is an issue and as a born and bred Brit having lived in the UK for more than 30 years and now living in the US I can tell you first hand that its far more aggressive in the places I lived in the UK vs places I have lived in the US. Am I statistically more likely to be shot in the US? Probably, but its next to zero in both.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
