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Could the Jewish communities be accused of over reaction? My feeling is no. They I think have good antennae when it comes to intolerance. For quite a long time. And where there's smoke there's fire. Britain would do well to understand it. France is learning too.
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Could the Jewish communities be accused of over reaction? My feeling is no. They I think have good antennae when it comes to intolerance. For quite a long time. And where there's smoke there's fire. Britain would do well to understand it. France is learning too.
Sorry, my feeling is yes, their experiences are nothing worse than what I experience as a British Nigerian guy in the UK
Do I avoid rural areas, due to overt racism - Check
In fact maps showing population distribution by ethnicity, shows that Asians and Blacks alike avoid rural areas. Interestingly minorities like Poles are distributed more evenly across the country (I wonder why?)
Am I abused when playing with my son in rural regions or is my 4 year old son snubbed by other parents in such areas - Check
Do I at times have to run my companies by a proxy (have a caucasian front man for negotiations) - Check
Have I been chased or physically assaulted in the backwater regions of Britain outside of regions like London and Birmingham - Check
Sorry, when you a minority these issues kinda crop up. If Jewish people expect 100% equitable treatment, then sorry that isn't going to happen.
Also excuse me if I am less than sympathetic, as discrimination towards them in the main ends as soon as they take off Kippah/Yamulke!!!
Cmon we had mainstream politicians standing up with placards reading "I am a jew". I doubt I will ever see the same treatment for britain's black populations..
Sorry, my feeling is yes, their experiences are nothing worse than what I experience as a British Nigerian guy in the UK
Do I avoid rural areas, due to overt racism - Check
In fact maps showing population distribution by ethnicity, shows that Asians and Blacks alike avoid rural areas. Interestingly minorities like Poles are distributed more evenly across the country (I wonder why?)
Am I abused when playing with my son in rural regions or is my 4 year old son snubbed by other parents in such areas - Check
Do I at times have to run my companies by a proxy (have a caucasian front man for negotiations) - Check
Have I been chased or physically assaulted in the backwater regions of Britain outside of regions like London and Birmingham - Check
Sorry, when you a minority these issues kinda crop up. If Jewish people expect 100% equitable treatment, then sorry that isn't going to happen.
Also excuse me if I am less than sympathetic, as discrimination towards them in the main ends as soon as they take off Kippah/Yamulke!!!
Cmon we had mainstream politicians standing up with placards reading "I am a jew". I doubt I will ever see the same treatment for britain's black populations..
So your answer is, "Be a good little minority and don't make waves." I'm sorry, but when a man who is clearly content being treated like a second class citizen says that another minority is overreacting to racism, it just doesn't hold any weight.
So your answer is, "Be a good little minority and don't make waves." I'm sorry, but when a man who is clearly content being treated like a second class citizen says that another minority is overreacting to racism, it just doesn't hold any weight.
Who said I was content, if you read any of my posts, you will understand I am purely pragmatic about this issue.
I am financially successful, so racism doesn't really affect me in the same way anymore. As in the most blatant racist excesses hindering social mobility are gone (The best we can hope for imo).
For Jewish folks, given the bulk of them are middle class in the UK, I think the above point is even more salient.
The fact is a good proportion of the majority population will be idiots towards minority populations.
You can moan about it till the cows come home, but I doubt much will change. I gave up moaning about it and getting angry about it all the time.
I regard myself as a step above my father who is wealthy but very angry and resentful towards Caucasians in the main, holed up in sprawling Beverly Hills mansion he cant really enjoy.
Like I said certain groups should stop moaning, they have it good. Other groups have it far worse.
I would argue that Asians at the moment have it far the worse in the UK. I have watched as my mates have had the word 'Paki' casually thrown at them in a pub, whereas I was left alone.
Let alone all the Asian grooming gang BS and Islamophobia all over the news
Who said I was content, if you read any of my posts, you will understand I am purely pragmatic about this issue.
I am financially successful, so racism doesn't really affect me in the same way anymore. As in the most blatant racist excesses hindering social mobility are gone (The best we can hope for imo).
For Jewish folks, given the bulk of them are middle class in the UK, I think the above point is even more salient.
The fact is a good proportion of the majority population will be idiots towards minority populations.
You can moan about it till the cows come home, but I doubt much will change. I gave up moaning about it and getting angry about it all the time.
I regard myself as a step above my father who is wealthy but very angry and resentful towards Caucasians in the main, holed up in sprawling Beverly Hills mansion he cant really enjoy.
Like I said certain groups should stop moaning, they have it good. Other groups have it far worse.
I would argue that Asians at the moment have it far the worse in the UK. I have watched as my mates have had the word 'Paki' casually thrown at them in a pub, whereas I was left alone.
Let alone all the Asian grooming gang BS and Islamophobia all over the news
Please..
No matter how much money you have, you are still a second class citizen. And you can call it pragmatism all you want, but the truth is, you have yours so you are content. You said that you have to use a white frontman in your business dealings. There are regions of your own country you won't enter because of your skin color. If everyone was content like you, we would still have Jim Crow laws in the states. It takes a lot more character to stand up to racism than it does to sit back and count your money. You don't have to be angry like your father. And you certainly shouldn't follow in his footsteps, hating an entire race of people for the actions of a few. I happen to be a very happy person, and successful just like you, but when something is wrong, I say it is wrong. And I certainly don't criticize others for saying it is wrong. You have said several times, "Others have it worse." As if somehow this makes it OK. "I'm OK with the bigotry I face, so you should be too!"
Money is a temporary thing. One way or another, we will both lose all our money one day, but "who you are", what you stand for, your character, lives on in the people you affect during your life.
No matter how much money you have, you are still a second class citizen. And you can call it pragmatism all you want, but the truth is, you have yours so you are content. You said that you have to use a white frontman in your business dealings. There are regions of your own country you won't enter because of your skin color. If everyone was content like you, we would still have Jim Crow laws in the states. It takes a lot more character to stand up to racism than it does to sit back and count your money. You don't have to be angry like your father. And you certainly shouldn't follow in his footsteps, hating an entire race of people for the actions of a few. I happen to be a very happy person, and successful just like you, but when something is wrong, I say it is wrong. And I certainly don't criticize others for saying it is wrong. You have said several times, "Others have it worse." As if somehow this makes it OK. "I'm OK with the bigotry I face, so you should be too!"
Money is a temporary thing. One way or another, we will both lose all our money one day, but "who you are", what you stand for, your character, lives on in the people you affect during your life.
I admire your enthusiasm, I used to have such zeal when I was younger, alas no longer. But in truth perhaps you are right, I have accepted the status quo. I grew tired of questioning every slight and slur.
I agree with a close friend's moniker, that "scratch a gentile deep enough and you'll find an anti-semite". To which I would add you would probably find a Racist. C'mon even my first memories of entering a shul as my father is of Jewish descent was the question from an irate middle aged man "what are you doing here?", this from the Azkhenazi descendants of the Holocaust.
Such foolishness is endemic to most populations and there is little I perceive one can do to change it. Have a read of Charles Freeman 'the closing of the western mind". I would argue that xenophobia and an attitude of cultural superiority go hand in hand with the western mindset. That is a deep rooted problem and one that will not change anytime soon.
Hence why I switch off and count my money. Enjoying the few interactions I have with those who are open minded and truly see someone for the 'content of their character'.
Last edited by nograviti; 01-27-2015 at 08:17 AM..
Reason: grammar
Re: 'their experiences are nothing worse than what I experience as a British Nigerian guy in the U.K.'
Perhaps one may be not paying some attention to how the past affects attitudes to minorities in the present?
Jews have their own specific history as the Africans have. It is evident that both groups experienced difficult journeys when coming to the UK. The Jews dealt with outright extermination and religious intolerance. With Africans, it was the detestable practice of slavery. In both we see how the attitudes of apparent superiority have lived on today and how they contribute to racist attitudes among the UK population.
But I'd suggest when it comes to the proposition of actually being wiped out it lends itself to ordering different attitudes on identifying what the 'spirit of the times' augur for particular groups in societies. I'd suggest that if your attitudes are mainstream then there is a certain handle on dealing with outright discrimination. With the Jewish community it looks as if not only do they deal with historical discrimination but with extermination. The latter I'd think would add great weight to their analytical perceptions of what is going on toward them in the country.
Re: 'their experiences are nothing worse than what I experience as a British Nigerian guy in the U.K.'
Perhaps one may be not paying some attention to how the past affects attitudes to minorities in the present?
Jews have their own specific history as the Africans have. It is evident that both groups experienced difficult journeys when coming to the UK. The Jews dealt with outright extermination and religious intolerance. With Africans, it was the detestable practice of slavery. In both we see how the attitudes of apparent superiority have lived on today and how they contribute to racist attitudes among the UK population.
But I'd suggest when it comes to the proposition of actually being wiped out it lends itself to ordering different attitudes on identifying what the 'spirit of the times' augur for particular groups in societies. I'd suggest that if your attitudes are mainstream then there is a certain handle on dealing with outright discrimination. With the Jewish community it looks as if not only do they deal with historical discrimination but with extermination. The latter I'd think would add great weight to their analytical perceptions of what is going on toward them in the country.
Therein lies my issue. Slavery isn't all there is to African history, when it comes to extermination have you forgotten colonialism??
The 6 million jews who died in the holocaust pale in comparisons to the numbers of African dead by virtue of colonialism. In the Belgian Congo alone low end estimates start at 13 million souls. Not to mention those who survived had their hands and limbs lopped off if they didn't meet the Belgian colonial quotas. They even lopped of the hands of children..!!!
Also the precursor to the Holocaust was the Herero genocide in Namibia. So please dont try and tell me the Jewish experience is worse than that of other populations especially black African people.
And finally in the context of the UK and USA name me a recent incident where a Jewish man or woman was killed or maimed by agents of the state? Where the general public reaction was a mere shrug of the shoulders..??
Racism is regrettable, but Jewish people have got it easy by comparison to others...
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On your points and thoughts about the comparison between 'colonialism' and 'extermination' would you give your reasons them on why perhaps Africans and the Jews appear to have different perceptions then on discrimination in the UK?
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