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Old 03-21-2017, 06:28 AM
 
Location: England
26,272 posts, read 8,437,245 times
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Once upon a time, I would have been elated at this news. Now, I feel sort of sad. I don't know if he deserves sadness. He was responsible for many deaths as leader of the IRA in Derry.

Yet, later in life, he became a key man in the peace process. He was forgiven by the political elite, but not by the families of his victims.

I guess I will leave history to judge Martin McGuinness.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:43 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,822 posts, read 12,043,431 times
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Its a difficult one, how do you forgive somebody with so much blood on their hands, on the other hand how do you feel about somebody that ultimately was fundamental in the push for the peace process? If you can't and won't forgive your 'enemies' you will never get peace. There have been historical atrocities from all sides, lets just hope and pray that the people of N. Ireland can put aside their differences and get peace and prosperity for all from now on, I have faith in the younger generation.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
18,534 posts, read 18,775,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
Once upon a time, I would have been elated at this news. Now, I feel sort of sad. I don't know if he deserves sadness. He was responsible for many deaths as leader of the IRA in Derry.

Yet, later in life, he became a key man in the peace process. He was forgiven by the political elite, but not by the families of his victims.

I guess I will leave history to judge Martin McGuinness.
Makes me wonder if he really repented or still had his same evil values but cast them aside for a nudge up the ladder....to give him powers in other way... I wont be crying over this man..nor will this man.. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...s-lord-tebbit/Ill go along with this.. He added: "He was a coward". Lord Tebbit also said he believed Mr McGuinness' transformation to "a man of peace" was because he feared being arrested and charged with a "number of murders which he had personally committed".
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,213 posts, read 13,502,497 times
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Don't like to see anyone suffer or die, and he did in his later life embrace peace and the peace process.

Then again it's not for me to forgive him, it's for his maker and those families that still mourn family members who were the victims of terrible terrorist attrocities and those who have to continually live with the scars of such violence.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:15 AM
 
Location: England
26,272 posts, read 8,437,245 times
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For many young people, the name Martin McGuinness means little. Many innocent people died during his time as a high ranking officer within the IRA. I do understand the IRA attacking politicians, soldiers, and even police. They were seen as the enemy.

But, I remember terrible events forgotten by most by the passage of time. The most horrendous incidents.... one that stays in my memory was a bomb attack at a gathering. I can't remember now exactly what it was. It was in the early 70s, and two sisters were maimed by a bomb placed at low level under a table.

They both lost their legs, and one sister, also an arm, and eye. The last thing I saw in the papers about them, was one girl walking down the aisle on artificial legs on her wedding day. She smiled bravely for the cameras. I have never heard about them again in all these years. I wonder how life turned out for them.

There were incidents of this kind for many years. Those years in Northern Ireland are blood soaked, and must leave much bitterness. McGuinness worked hard to make the peace process work, and for that, I guess I thank him. But his death will bring mixed emotions to many.

He died, surrounded by family and friends. A much better end than many of his victims had.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:36 AM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,934,339 times
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"Former Tory cabinet minister Norman Tebbit said he hopes Martin McGuinness is “parked in a particularly hot and unpleasant corner of hell for the rest of eternity”.

Norman Tebbit says world a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4uivPpzCGo

Last edited by Jaggy001; 03-21-2017 at 07:45 AM..
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:56 AM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,298,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
Makes me wonder if he really repented or still had his same evil values but cast them aside for a nudge up the ladder....to give him powers in other way... I wont be crying over this man..nor will this man.. Martin McGuinness was a 'coward who never atoned for his crimes', says Lord TebbitIll go along with this.. He added: "He was a coward". Lord Tebbit also said he believed Mr McGuinness' transformation to "a man of peace" was because he feared being arrested and charged with a "number of murders which he had personally committed".
the likes of tebbit were ( and are ) far more ruthless men than mc guinness

if mc guinness didnt play the role he did , someone else would have , people always fight back against opression the world over
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:59 AM
 
Location: England
26,272 posts, read 8,437,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
the likes of tebbit were ( and are ) far more ruthless men than mc guinness

if mc guinness didnt play the role he did , someone else would have , people always fight back against opression the world over
So, you believe his ordering the murder, and maiming of innocent civilians was justified? Serious question.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:05 AM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,298,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
So, you believe his ordering the murder, and maiming of innocent civilians was justified? Serious question.
didnt say anything of the sort ?

i said the situation ( british created ) in northern ireland brought the likes of mc guinness to the fore , had he not been a key figure , someone else would have

tebitt was a hawk his entire life , thats fair enough but dont throw stones
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:15 AM
 
Location: England
26,272 posts, read 8,437,245 times
Reputation: 31336
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
didnt say anything of the sort ?

i said the situation ( british created ) in northern ireland brought the likes of mc guinness to the fore , had he not been a key figure , someone else would have

tebitt was a hawk his entire life , thats fair enough but dont throw stones
You said people always fight back against oppression the world over. So part of that fighting back policy, directed by Martin McGuinness was the maiming and murdering of innocent people.

What I was asking you was do you agree with this policy of the IRA?

You describe Norman Tebbit as a hawk his entire life. As far as I know, he didn't order the murder of innocent civilians in his time as a politician. Do you believe his wife being crippled was just collateral damage?

I am curious about the mindset of Irish citizens. I knew a few when I was in the army, and the way they thought about such things always interested me.
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