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tebbit was on the very right of the most right wing tory goverment of the twentieth century , britain has always been involved in military campaigns so death ( and the doling out of it ) was something he obviously tolerated and supported even innocents died ( which of course they did ) , he was no dove, britain has always been a violent state , so too is the usa and most of the other powers of the world , i like the uk and the british but lets not be hypocritical here , mc guinness was obviously a brutal man in his early years but hardly any different to countless ( respectable and decorated ) british generals and of course politicians
the IRA campaign was a reaction to systematic discrimination and oppression which london tolerated , as was the campaign of 1916 which brought about independence to the south , imperial powers dont give up without a fight and its not like a small country like ireland could ever take on the british in conventional warfare , ireland tried that for several centuries and lost every time , the campaign from 1969 on was a legacy of 1916 in reality
london should have repatriated the unionist population back to scotland post 1921 and allowed the entire island to go free , the unionists are great in their own way but like many scots are deeply neurotic about catholicism , brexit has brought forward the posibility of a united ireland , of that there is no doubt , brexit is a disaster for the economy of northern ireland , were scotland to leave the uk , that would crown it for the unionists as the cultural link is broken
We were not going to repatriate peole who have been there for hundreds of years.
As for violence you need look no further than Europe, which we helped liberate from the Nazis, or do you think Hitler wouldn't have eventually taken Ireland.
Today the EU and single currency is overshadowed by Germany and the German economy and this will be even more so after Brexit, so you are now increasingly dictated to from Brussels and Berlin, with politicians talking of a federal future.
As for Brexit, the Scots leaving the UK would be a massive disaster for themselves, as England accounts for three quarters of Scotlands trade and not Europe. The truth being nobody knows what the deal or end result of Brexit will be, and it's in everyones interest to forge some kind of deal and working relationship whether the EU survives in it's current form or not, as there is the real possibility that the EU itself doesn't survive in the longer term.
In terms of Martin McGuinness, the peace process he helped bring about needs to move forward and the Northern Irish Assembly is part of that, however it should be noted that the Republican Parties in Northern Ireland were always staunchly against the EU.
Last edited by Brave New World; 03-21-2017 at 11:21 AM..
I love how people make so much about his transition towards politics and peace later in life. They're forgetting that a major reason for this was because British intelligence had infiltrated the highest levels of the IRA, before long he would have faced justice for his crimes. Taking part in the peace process allowed him and many of his buddies to receives legal immunity.
And claim that they while they could not win total victory, they did achieve a compromise.
We were not going to repatriate peole who have been there for hundreds of years.
As for violence you need look no further than Europe, which we helped liberate from the Nazis, or do you think Hitler wouldn't have eventually taken Ireland.
Today the EU and single currency is overshadowed by Germany and the German economy and this will be even more so after Brexit, so you are now increasingly dictated to from Brussels and Berlin, with politicians talking of a federal future.
As for Brexit, the Scots leaving the UK would be a massive disaster for themselves, as England accounts for three quarters of Scotlands trade and not Europe. The truth being nobody knows what the deal or end result of Brexit will be, and it's in everyones interest to forge some kind of deal and working relationship whether the EU survives in it's current form or not, as there is the real possibility that the EU itself doesn't survive in the longer term.
In terms of Martin McGuinness, the peace process he helped bring about needs to move forward and the Northern Irish Assembly is part of that, however it should be noted that the Republican Parties in Northern Ireland were always staunchly against the EU.
He and his gang were akin to Black September, the ETA, etc. They saw themselves as freedom fighters while others- especially their targets- saw them as terrorists. Sometimes the same people who decried IRA violence took a more nuanced if not enthusiastic view of violence from other so-called national liberation movements. Ah, it's always different when they are targeting YOU.
So it goes.
Me saying I understand why the IRA attacked Politicians, soldiers, and police, didn't mean I thought it was right. I just understand why such people attack authority. I didn't, and still don't understand why so called freedom fighters, deliberately targeted especially Irish citizens.
My second paragraph in my post you quoted, was sarcastic. I should have been clearer.
I stand by my comment on our governments killing innocent people. It is going on every day in the Middle East.
The Irish situation is far more complex than any discussion about Castro. It goes back hundreds of years.
I will say this the peace process needed McGuinness to succeed. There were also crimes by Unionists and the UK government. It was an unnecessary conflict.
Me saying I understand why the IRA attacked Politicians, soldiers, and police, didn't mean I thought it was right. I just understand why such people attack authority. I didn't, and still don't understand why so called freedom fighters, deliberately targeted especially Irish citizens.
My second paragraph in my post you quoted, was sarcastic. I should have been clearer.
I stand by my comment on our governments killing innocent people. It is going on every day in the Middle East.
The Irish situation is far more complex than any discussion about Castro. It goes back hundreds of years.
I will say this the peace process needed McGuinness to succeed. There were also crimes by Unionists and the UK government. It was an unnecessary conflict.
Although I do recognise some hypocrisy from the media. The story of Martin McGuinness in many ways parallels that of Nelson Mandela. Earlier in their lives they were violent terrorists who were responsible for the deaths of many innocent people
Yet when Mandela died virtually all of the coverage was positive, and focused on his later life as a peaceful politician. With McGuinness they are focusing equally on both sides of his character.
the largest parallel was the drive to end the injustice in their respective societies
We were not going to repatriate peole who have been there for hundreds of years.
As for violence you need look no further than Europe, which we helped liberate from the Nazis, or do you think Hitler wouldn't have eventually taken Ireland.
Today the EU and single currency is overshadowed by Germany and the German economy and this will be even more so after Brexit, so you are now increasingly dictated to from Brussels and Berlin, with politicians talking of a federal future.
As for Brexit, the Scots leaving the UK would be a massive disaster for themselves, as England accounts for three quarters of Scotlands trade and not Europe. The truth being nobody knows what the deal or end result of Brexit will be, and it's in everyones interest to forge some kind of deal and working relationship whether the EU survives in it's current form or not, as there is the real possibility that the EU itself doesn't survive in the longer term.
In terms of Martin McGuinness, the peace process he helped bring about needs to move forward and the Northern Irish Assembly is part of that, however it should be noted that the Republican Parties in Northern Ireland were always staunchly against the EU.
the " people who were there hundred of years " brought about the IRA campaign with there ethnic supremacism , if they couldnt behave in a civilised manner towards their neighbours , they were better returned to where they came from originally , they were and continue to be very slow learners but few have much patience with them these days , the english have no love for them , thats for sure
the largest parallel was the drive to end the injustice in their respective societies
The injustices as they saw them. To compare the challenges of the Republicans in Northern Ireland to those of the native blacks in apartheid South Africa is a controversial comparison to say the least.
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