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It still seems much better because lots of suburbs in the US are 2 units per acre or even 1 unit per acre. It gobbles up way too much land.
You're probably overestimating the "lots" of suburbs with huge lots; I'd estimate that a typical suburban lot ranges more along the 0.25-0.33 size.
On the other hand, where do I sign up?
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Originally Posted by nei
Yea, that's what I meant by semi-detached. Never heard the word "twin".
It's pretty much exclusive to the Philadelphia area; I'd never heard it before I moved here, either; semi-detached homes were called exactly that elsewhere.
Quote:
Here's a (not very fancy ) neighborhood of semi-detached homes near me:
Ugh. At least my "twin" has front and side yards; typically, semi-detached homes around here have lots between 20 and 25 feet, and the homes themselves are around 18 feet wide; I was lucky to find a twin with a 35-foot wide lot. I'd suffocate otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C
Here is an aerial view of my current neighborhood:
I think it is pretty dense for a neighborhood of mostly single-family homes, but it remains, IMHO, comfortable.
The average lot size is 40x125
That looks a lot like my old neighborhood in Cincinnati; most of the houses were on 35 x 120 foot lots, and were 1 1/2 story, 1000 square feet Cape Cods. 99 percent of the homes have garages; most were in the basements of the home, others were at the back (but no alleys). I liked it; I had space between me and my neighbors and my own porch and patch of grass and garden to tend, but still it took me only 20 minutes to mow the lawn (30 if I edged).
Yet some people would call that "suburban" living.
It depends on where you live. How much snow do you get in LI or western Mass? How long does the freezing season last, ie, first frost to last frost? Some people also use the garage as a storage area for garbage cans, power tools, general storage for stuff you don't need often, etc.
Western Mass: first frost is around mid-Oct, last is early May. We average about 45 inches of snow a year but got 58 last year.
Long Island: first frost is early to mid Nov, last is mid April. Averages about 24 inches of snow a year.
That looks a lot like my old neighborhood in Cincinnati; most of the houses were on 35 x 120 foot lots, and were 1 1/2 story, 1000 square feet Cape Cods. 99 percent of the homes have garages; most were in the basements of the home, others were at the back (but no alleys). I liked it; I had space between me and my neighbors and my own porch and patch of grass and garden to tend, but still it took me only 20 minutes to mow the lawn (30 if I edged).
Yet some people would call that "suburban" living.
I would call it suburban because the first neighborhood I grew up in Long Island (about 35 miles from NYC) had 1200 ish square foot 1 1/2 story Cape Cods. Lots were a bit bigger (1/8 acre?) than yours but most didn't have garages. So to me, your description of a city neighborhood makes me think of a suburban one.
I would call it suburban because the first neighborhood I grew up in Long Island (about 35 miles from NYC) had 1200 ish square foot 1 1/2 story Cape Cods. Lots were a bit bigger (1/8 acre?) than yours but most didn't have garages. So to me, your description of a city neighborhood makes me think of a suburban one.
Agree and think am familiar with neighborhoods in Cinci referenced. I think the garages sloped down from my recollection. But when I visited the first time with a GF whose family was there, they called it the city and I thought it just looked like older burbs, guess it is all what you are used to. On the whole though single family homes never truly feel like the city to me, but my perspective could be jaded.
I enjoyed living in my southern California bungalow court home. I agree with those who have pointed to California as a model for this sort of higher-density single-family living. It's possible to pack a lot of people into a relatively small footprint, yet still have a sense of having some personal connection to outdoor space.
The densest single-family home neighborhoods I've seen are in Queens in NYC. Is Southern California as dense as this one?
I'm thinking the limit of units/ acre for single family homes is somewhere close to 10. One of the cities here (30,000 people, though parts are low density and rural so more like 20,000) published this to show what different levels of density look like.
It is clear that in the past most Americans associate the single family detached homes with many positive things like freedom, quiet, safety and other things while shunning the "horrors" of multi-family apartments. Many people in America hate the idea of HOAs or renting from someone else, basically being under the thumb of a landlord.
However, as we all know sprawl is a very bad enviornmental problem that is very hard to solve because America is so deeply entrenched in for over 60 years. Earth simply cannot sustain this idea that every person should have his/her own plot of land and a house that stands by itself.
If people though cannot accept willingly to live in multi-family buildings because of the lack of freedom from restrictions imposed by landlords or HOA/condo associations, they will opt for single family detached homes which are non-HOA.
Can you be able to achieve a high density that could theoretically save thousands of acres of wildlands and farmlands with just single family detached homes? There is a glass ceiling as to how high the density can go with these types of housing. Multi-family apartments on the other hand can really push density far higher understandably.
editorial voice aside...
Allowing the single family home model to accommodate greater density...
will be based in familial or other ties among the residents...
something greater and far aside from the housing itself.
Attempts to impose that "familiarity" without such ties... will be rejected.
I'm thinking the limit of units/ acre for single family homes is somewhere close to 10. One of the cities here (30,000 people, though parts are low density and rural so more like 20,000) published this to show what different levels of density look like.
The densest single-family home neighborhood has about 10 / acre.
Agreed. I also think there is a sweet spot around 7-8 where a huge percentage of families are going to find the neighborhood attractive if -- and this is a huge if -- it is as safe and the schools are as high-performing as those in the sprawl-burbs.
You saw my calculation for inner-city Chicago earlier on the thread, 9.6 SFHs/acre. That's pretty tight quarters -- I often hear my neighbors' phone conversations and my house's layout noticeably defers to the narrow size of the lot.
But get down to 7 or 8 and you can basically have the traditional American single-family home with a decent yard, driveway and garage, and rooms that feel like separate rooms. If the street layout has alleys, like Berwyn, Illinois, you'll be closer to 8 SFHs/acre. If it has driveways, like Kenmore, New York, you'll be closer to 7. Absent social problems in the neighborhood, this is good enough for most people.
Western Mass: first frost is around mid-Oct, last is early May. We average about 45 inches of snow a year but got 58 last year.
Long Island: first frost is early to mid Nov, last is mid April. Averages about 24 inches of snow a year.
Western Mass is similar to metro Denver for cold season, but we average 60" of snow/yr with wide swings from year to year. A lot of older homes don't have garages; in the last say, 40 years, virtually every SF home has one.
I enjoyed living in my southern California bungalow court home. I agree with those who have pointed to California as a model for this sort of higher-density single-family living. It's possible to pack a lot of people into a relatively small footprint, yet still have a sense of having some personal connection to outdoor space.
I also love this particular design matrix, it is very specific to Southern California with a few contemporary developments in the PNW and other areas. My neighborhood area actually has probably the largest concentration of them in the country and they are just a sweet living option for those that don't need the typical minimum house size requirements for resale yet still want the feeling of their own space and garden. The historic ones around here are probably a bit tiny for most- around 4/500 sf- but several of them have gone condo successfully. I have known several friends who have lived in them and they love it!
The idea of placing parking off to the side, a bit of shared community garden and circulation, and also a tiny garden to tend and porch space to call your own seems to be a perfectly ideal set-up for some folks and should be amongst the many housing options out there. Designing the individual houses to conform a bit to the context of environment and neighboring buildings so they fit into a existing area, whether all sf homes or a denser mixed-use area.
This type of housing seems to me would be particularly successful and better received in core, street-car urban neighborhoods where there is already a mix of sf homes, apartments and condos near a shopping core and easy access to public transportation.
These newer interpretations with 750 s.f. or so with lofts and front porches seem to be a nice size.
The California-style single family home on a small lot with a yard you can mow with a pair of scissors has a lot of the disadvantages of an apartment or townhouse, especially if your neighbors have noisy hobbies.
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