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I actually wasn't comparing MSA but City populations, but I was mistaken - there are far fewer people in St Louis than in Baltimore city. I've barely spent much time at all in St. Louis so perhaps my assumptions about the similarities were not accurate.
You are right about Baltimore and St Louis being unable to annex, and I agree with your estimation of why suburbs do not want to be part of the city core.
Other cities did annex about a century ago (including New York). Annexation does seem to happen often in Canada.
One thing about St. Louis, which isn't the case in Baltimore, is that it is a disadvantage geographically. The best the city could do is capture residents from nearby Chicago, and when Chicago was the 2nd largest city in America St. Louis was able to retain residents but as people fled Chicago they obviously were not going to St. Louis. Those people just went to the suburbs of Chicago.
Baltimore is a lot closer to DC and Philadelphia, cities with more going on for them. Not necessarily to Chicago, but the fact that Baltimore allows you to be closer to New York, a city which continues to grow, while Chicago continues to decline. People that are getting priced out of New York might consider Philadelphia or Baltimore; if they still want the urban nature of the East Coast. They can't get this in Charlotte or Atlanta.
With respect to Detroit, the amount of vacant land in that city is beyond anything the city could ever hope to address. The city has turned a corner. It actually costs the city more, to continue to provide residents in neighborhoods public services where the density is that low, than what they're taking in through tax revenue. Urban farming might help Detroit, somewhat, but chances are it is not enough to generate the tremendous amount of revenue the city needs to sustain these neighborhoods.
If the neighborhoods where one person lives on a city block are contiguous, allow the suburbs to annex those areas and focus in on the core downtown. The city should have addressed their vacant property issue back in the 60s when it first started. Personally, I think Detroit could, and should, manage a much smaller city, say 50 square miles or less, than the 144 or so square miles they have now.
Baltimore is a lot closer to DC and Philadelphia, cities with more going on for them. Not necessarily to Chicago, but the fact that Baltimore allows you to be closer to New York, a city which continues to grow, while Chicago continues to decline. People that are getting priced out of New York might consider Philadelphia or Baltimore; if they still want the urban nature of the East Coast. They can't get this in Charlotte or Atlanta.
Maybe, but proximity to New York City hasn't exactly help Newark. You can make the counter-arguement that Baltimore does worse because of its proximity to DC, because most urban attention is focused towards DC
I actually wasn't comparing MSA but City populations, but I was mistaken - there are far fewer people in St Louis than in Baltimore city. I've barely spent much time at all in St. Louis so perhaps my assumptions about the similarities were not accurate.
True now, the difference was much smaller 60 years ago (10% smaller back then). Seems like Baltimore's metro economy is doing ok, it's just the city has become area of the metro where poverty is concentrated (or just few well off people).
You can make the counter-arguement that Baltimore does worse because of its proximity to DC, because most urban attention is focused towards DC
There are a signficant number of DC commuters in Baltimore, many of whom are satisfied with our urban amenities at maybe 1/3 or 1/4 the housing cost. So DC (and two commuter rail lines to it) helps us, I think.
I know several who live about a 5 minute walk from the main train station in a nice area and don't mind their 55 minute train ride at all. Truthfully, Baltimore is way more affordable, fun, and down to earth for the younger crowd.
Maybe, but proximity to New York City hasn't exactly help Newark. You can make the counter-arguement that Baltimore does worse because of its proximity to DC, because most urban attention is focused towards DC
Good point.
Baltimore is still cheaper than Northern Virginia and DC though. You get a true urban environment, not the post-modern quasi-urban environment you get in Northern Virginia, that just looks urban because of the high-rises there. Baltimore is a working class city, so you don't need to bring in six figures to impress people, or feel important.
I thought there were a lot of projects planned for Baltimore though.
There are a signficant number of DC commuters in Baltimore, many of whom are satisfied with our urban amenities at maybe 1/3 or 1/4 the housing cost. So DC (and two commuter rail lines to it) helps us, I think.
I know several who live about a 5 minute walk from the main train station in a nice area and don't mind their 55 minute train ride at all. Truthfully, Baltimore is way more affordable, fun, and down to earth for the younger crowd.
I tend to look at Baltimore as the phenomenon we have here in Hampton Roads with 7 cities/counties continuous in a metro area. You can live in a city like Norfolk or Portsmouth, not the greatest but a true urban environment, and commute into cities like Virginia Beach and Chesapeake, wealthier areas, perhaps not as urban, but not that bad either.
I like Norfolk because it is more working class, you don't have to have a lot of money, drive an expensive car, or dress in designer clothes, etc. you can just be yourself. Virginia Beach and Chesapeake are more about keeping up a certain image, in particular Virginia Beach due to the beach culture there.
I tend to look at Baltimore as the phenomenon we have here in Hampton Roads with 7 cities/counties continuous in a metro area. You can live in a city like Norfolk or Portsmouth, not the greatest but a true urban environment, and commute into cities like Virginia Beach and Chesapeake, wealthier areas, perhaps not as urban, but not that bad either.
I like Norfolk because it is more working class, you don't have to have a lot of money, drive an expensive car, or dress in designer clothes, etc. you can just be yourself. Virginia Beach and Chesapeake are more about keeping up a certain image, in particular Virginia Beach due to the beach culture there.
Interesting - I hadn't thought about it that way.
I've been to these areas a few times (as a rabid Orioles fan I've enjoyed a few Tides games) and have driven through many times to visit family in NC. Though I haven't really gotten a feel for Hampton Roads in general. Once I had a work trip to Newport News, parts of that area seem similar to Baltimore in regard to run-down rowhouse project housing.
Is there any quality transit between the cities? Or is a car really the only way to get around? I remember Norfolk to the beach is about 20 miles or so.
I've been to these areas a few times (as a rabid Orioles fan I've enjoyed a few Tides games) and have driven through many times to visit family in NC. Though I haven't really gotten a feel for Hampton Roads in general. Once I had a work trip to Newport News, parts of that area seem similar to Baltimore in regard to run-down rowhouse project housing.
Is there any quality transit between the cities? Or is a car really the only way to get around? I remember Norfolk to the beach is about 20 miles or so.
There is a train in Norfolk, one starter line that might change though.
Considering we had one of the largest steel plants in the US and a huge manufacturing base, it is perhaps not improper to think of Baltimore as having characteristics of rust belt towns.
I agree St Louis is a good comparison, though Denver couldn't be more dissimilar.
Admittedly, I chose these two cities due to metro population (Baltimore metro pop. is wedged between St. Louis & Denver metros)...I realize that demographically/historically there is little in common between Denver & Baltimore. However, the same can be said for New York City & Los Angeles yet people are constantly pairing these two cities together.
St. Louis, as others have mentioned, is similar to Baltimore in many ways.
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