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I think you basic assumption is fallacious. There's enough value in them as golf courses to keep them running as such. The model isn't failing. The fact that the golf courses are operating proves that. If we saw a lot of dead, brown, closed golf courses, sitting in the middle of devalued, half empty suburban developments, I'd agree. It might happen in some places. But I'm not seeing it on a systemic basis.
You think developers would overlook them for redevelopment, if they saw value to be harvested? You think their owners would keep them as golf courses, just because they are now, if they lost money and could be sold off at a profit?
You've come up with a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht
Developers keep them open to sell lots. But when that model fails then the question becomes "what now".
Turn lemons into lemonade. Yeah, a golf course is virtually worthless as-is - but it's a ready made opportunity to fix what is wrong with with these moribund communities. Think of this as a thought experiment - what can be done to stave off the decline of these places that are no longer valued? What are the different ways that resources can be deployed, or can anything be done at all?
There are some golf courses that have been redeveloped, for sure. There's one near me, in King of Prussia, that over the years became sandwiched between a mall and two freeways. The court battles over redeveloping the land have gone on since the mid-90s and finally was settled last year. Initially the idea was to build some kind of "new urbanist" utopia, but who wants to live sandwiched between a mall and two freeways?
A Wegman's grocery store opened last year on part of the property; the rest is just a puddle of mud, weeds and sinkholes. The golf course undoubtedly was more attractive.
There are some golf courses that have been redeveloped, for sure. There's one near me, in King of Prussia, that over the years became sandwiched between a mall and two freeways. The court battles over redeveloping the land have gone on since the mid-90s and finally was settled last year. Initially the idea was to build some kind of "new urbanist" utopia, but who wants to live sandwiched between a mall and two freeways?
A Wegman's grocery store opened last year on part of the property; the rest is just a puddle of mud, weeds and sinkholes. The golf course undoubtedly was more attractive.
This is not a thread about re-developing golf courses as the same lame sprawl - if that's all it is, leave it for a golf course, more lame stip malls isn't what is called for here.
But creating true walkable vibrant town centers (not strip malls, big box stores and the usual crap) could radically alter the fate of these otherwise doomed places.
Komeht does not seem to appreciate nature, trees, grass, wildlife or the preference to live in such a tranquil setting. Density is not a universal savior or preference. The nitrous oxide fumes associated with urban living have clearly taken a toll.
This is not a thread about re-developing golf courses as the same lame sprawl - if that's all it is, leave it for a golf course, more lame stip malls isn't what is called for here.
But creating true walkable vibrant town centers (not strip malls, big box stores and the usual crap) could radically alter the fate of these otherwise doomed places.
To be clear here, we're talking about golf course communities, and not just any old golf course, correct?
Just because you'd like them to be doomed, doesn't mean they are.
I assume you're starting with the topology of a suburban SFR development with a golf course woven through it. Even if there was a desire to get rid of the golf course, and redevelop it, it's highly likely the layout of the course within the housing would not lend it self to commercial redevelopment, and would likely be fought strenuously by surrounding home owners, who paid to have a house on a golf course, not a strip mall or office park.
If what you're talking about was a viable model, you'd be seeing it happening already. I haven't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht
This is not a thread about re-developing golf courses as the same lame sprawl - if that's all it is, leave it for a golf course, more lame stip malls isn't what is called for here.
But creating true walkable vibrant town centers (not strip malls, big box stores and the usual crap) could radically alter the fate of these otherwise doomed places.
To be clear here, we're talking about golf course communities, and not just any old golf course, correct?
Yet I mentioned a golf course that was being redeveloped -- in theory, anyway, because it hasn't happened in the almost 20 years of planning -- as New Urbanist mixed use community, it doesn't count.
This is not a thread about re-developing golf courses as the same lame sprawl - if that's all it is, leave it for a golf course, more lame stip malls isn't what is called for here.
But creating true walkable vibrant town centers (not strip malls, big box stores and the usual crap) could radically alter the fate of these otherwise doomed places.
A lot of golf courses are out on the edges of towns/suburbs, so if they were to be torn up, they would either be left as empty space or single family homes would be built there. Those types of areas would have absolutely no use for any kind of town centers, they just don't have enough population around them.
Komeht does not seem to appreciate nature, trees, grass, wildlife or the preference to live in such a tranquil setting. Density is not a universal savior or preference. The nitrous oxide fumes associated with urban living have clearly taken a toll.
In fairness to Komeht, he is not alone in that regard. This forum is full of people who seem to not value the natural setting. We have people talking about hating trees; saying their kids don't know what to do in a grassy area b/c there's no sidewalk, etc. It's only "OK" if there's lots of brick, concrete, noise (but not from cars, or God forbid babies, just construction noise, noise from mass transit, etc.)
But golf courses aren't a natural setting, they're artificial.
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