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Parking is best below-grade. They deaden city streets when above-grade.
Actually the bigger issue is how much land they take. If the garage is next to the building, or the hole in the woodframe apartment building "doughnut" then it's reducing density. A lot of seemingly-dense urban neighborhoods might be 1/3 less dense than they appear.
The volume of garages is a big factor. If your 400-unit tower has 600 parking spaces above-grade, that's a massive garage. If 300 or 400 cars are actually used per day including 100 per hour during rush hour, that's a lot of cars crossing the sidewalk. Do a neighborhood full of those buildings and the neighborhood is car-dominated and probably not very pedestrian friendly.
But sometimes that 400-unit tower has 200 parking spaces and only 100 get used per day, with 30 per hour at peak. And the 200 are underground. The sidewalks and streets will be much better for it. That's how it works in a more urban city.
Parking is best below-grade. They deaden city streets when above-grade.
Actually the bigger issue is how much land they take. If the garage is next to the building, or the hole in the woodframe apartment building "doughnut" then it's reducing density. A lot of seemingly-dense urban neighborhoods might be 1/3 less dense than they appear.
The volume of garages is a big factor. If your 400-unit tower has 600 parking spaces above-grade, that's a massive garage. If 300 or 400 cars are actually used per day including 100 per hour during rush hour, that's a lot of cars crossing the sidewalk. Do a neighborhood full of those buildings and the neighborhood is car-dominated and probably not very pedestrian friendly.
But sometimes that 400-unit tower has 200 parking spaces and only 100 get used per day, with 30 per hour at peak. And the 200 are underground. The sidewalks and streets will be much better for it. That's how it works in a more urban city.
I was just in Denver, the city, yesterday, in an area where there are some of those towers. I was looking at one that had a small paved area in back of the building, and an underground garage. I have never seen one with a massive parking lot to accommodate all the cars the owners may have. (When nei gets done with his Denver map, we'll see just how many, or more likely, how few, Denverites are car-less.)
First off people like owning their own car, truck, or motorcycle. People love to be able to have the freedom to do what they want, and what they want is to drive their own car.
Second, cars and trucks are much more efficient and cleaner burning now than at any time in history. They keep getting better.
Third, we have plenty of our own oil here in the USA that we can tap into.
fourth, The global warming crowd is mostly made up of alarmist that are trying to push bad science. Almost all of these people are not scientist at all but mostly political people that want to get voted into office or find a way to keep their seat in office. Real science has found nothing in the way of man made problems that have done anything to warm up the planet.
The only thing that I would buy in the story is the cost of a car and here is how to combat that. Keep your cars longer. I laugh when I see someone in a Prius and in four years they have another car. They did not get the return on the investment. They may as well have purchased a gasoline powered car. I am not big on hybrids because the returns are so bad. I am for buying and holding. Our Astro Van has over 160,000 miles on it and it is still going. I figure we can get another 40,000 miles on it. That is a bargain.
Pretty much spot on...
I love my car but would never force ownership on anyone.
It's great if a person has their life so organized so as to take advantage of taxpayer subsidized mass transit and limitations.
I use vehicles for work... so getting myself to remote jobsites or carry tools and supplies is simple not feasible and I've tried it a few times with terrible results.
Needed to make a moment's notice trip from Oakland to Seattle to repair a broken machine and had the repair part with me as I went through airport security... no tools... just the heating element and thermostat... missed the first flight with TSA and they ran all kinds of checks on me and verified my employment, etc... in the end I was just barely allowed to board with the medical device... in the past I would simply make the 12 hour drive and have all my tools and supplies with me...
My similar attempts with BART have not worked out... have a small roller tote and was heading for San Francisco and decided to take BART... has anyone noticed the every BART elevator seems to be out of service all the time? Anyway... BART police had me open the tote and saw I had things like screwdrivers, electrical tape, wire, etc... another delay.
Being on call 24/7 365 days a year is not conducive to public transportation period...
My main service van which is specially equiped is year model 1985... it is a mobile workshop... welder, air compressor, power, vise, lighting, etc...
Part of my job also involves pickup tissue and human transplant organs and depending on public transportation with a surgical team on standby is another no go...
My vehicles earn their keep and have paid thousands in registration fees as commercial vehicles even if they only log a few thousand miles per year...
On a separate issue... when the new medical center addition came about the city REQUIRED 3.5 parking spaces per 1000 square feet... no exceptions which meant design compromises... the parking area has NEVER been full... last year, 10 years after the build out they decided 2.5 is adequate... go figure???
Again... I support those 100% that desire to live a car free life... I know I would save a lot of money if I could do it... but, I would also be out of a job.
I love my car but would never force ownership on anyone.
It's great if a person has their life so organized so as to take advantage of taxpayer subsidized mass transit and limitations.
I use vehicles for work... so getting myself to remote jobsites or carry tools and supplies is simple not feasible and I've tried it a few times with terrible results.
Needed to make a moment's notice trip from Oakland to Seattle to repair a broken machine and had the repair part with me as I went through airport security... no tools... just the heating element and thermostat... missed the first flight with TSA and they ran all kinds of checks on me and verified my employment, etc... in the end I was just barely allowed to board with the medical device... in the past I would simply make the 12 hour drive and have all my tools and supplies with me...
My similar attempts with BART have not worked out... have a small roller tote and was heading for San Francisco and decided to take BART... has anyone noticed the every BART elevator seems to be out of service all the time? Anyway... BART police had me open the tote and saw I had things like screwdrivers, electrical tape, wire, etc... another delay.
Being on call 24/7 365 days a year is not conducive to public transportation period...
My main service van which is specially equiped is year model 1985... it is a mobile workshop... welder, air compressor, power, vise, lighting, etc...
Part of my job also involves pickup tissue and human transplant organs and depending on public transportation with a surgical team on standby is another no go...
My vehicles earn their keep and have paid thousands in registration fees as commercial vehicles even if they only log a few thousand miles per year...
On a separate issue... when the new medical center addition came about the city REQUIRED 3.5 parking spaces per 1000 square feet... no exceptions which meant design compromises... the parking area has NEVER been full... last year, 10 years after the build out they decided 2.5 is adequate... go figure???
Again... I support those 100% that desire to live a car free life... I know I would save a lot of money if I could do it... but, I would also be out of a job.
Lots of fair points and a pretty reasonable perspective. However, I couldn't help but notice that you slipped in "Taxpayer Subsidized" for transit, while leaving it out for driving. Driving is heavily subsidized, despite a tiny gas tax that's supposed to cover cheap gas, free parking, new/maintained roads, emergency services, plowing, etc.
I was just in Denver, the city, yesterday, in an area where there are some of those towers. I was looking at one that had a small paved area in back of the building, and an underground garage. I have never seen one with a massive parking lot to accommodate all the cars the owners may have. (When nei gets done with his Denver map, we'll see just how many, or more likely, how few, Denverites are car-less.)
Denver still requires huge amounts of parking even in urban buildings, and much of it ends up above-grade. It's surprising. (Are you referring to surface parking? That would be an odd concept for a tower built in recent decades.)
Those car-less stats will hopefully be broken out by neighborhood. Ownership in the urban core should be far lower than elsewhere per income gradient.
It works that way in Seattle. A new condo tower will have a space for every unit, but it's a rare apartment that does. Often the ratio is 0.5 to 0.8. We also have a lot of smaller buildings built without parking at all, generally in neighborhoods like Capitol Hill, the U District, or Ballard where people often don't have cars.
Of course it's not about the average, it's about the people living in the building, who obviously self-select.
Exactly! You do have to pick from what's available, that's affordable, when you are looking.
I think there is enough data to make a pretty accurate prediction of how many parking spaces are necessary for a given building.
That depends on where the building is located, we have already gone over this. If there is a lot of things to walk to and lots of transit and biking options, the need for a car or parking spot decreases. This has been addressed over and over, why are you not getting that?
I get where you live, everyone owns a car, that makes sense. Where you live sounds quite suburban and car centric, there is nothing wrong with that, but not every place is like where you live.
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