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Philadelphia's SEPTA has a 66% recovery rate. Take the current fare for a single bus ride $2.25. It would increase to $3.02 for a single fare on bus/train.
I don't think subsidizing transportation is bad. It happens in pretty much every country in the world. It's a matter of being wise with which mode is subsidized and to what extent.
Is that direct or indirect costs? Direct would be the costs of paying the driver and the fuel to get you to your destination. Indirect is everything else. RTD's recovery is 1/3 and its fare for a single ride is $2.60.
Is that direct or indirect costs? Direct would be the costs of paying the driver and the fuel to get you to your destination. Indirect is everything else.
Operating costs. So the day to day costs but not construction. Think it also includes vehicle maintance but not acquisition:
Operating expenses are expenses incurred by transit agencies that are associated with operating
mass transportation services (vehicle operations, maintenance, and administration). Reconciling items
are expenses where accounting practices vary in the way transit agencies handle them due to local
requirements. The NTST excludes reconciling items such as depreciation, interest expenses, leases
and rentals.
Operating costs. So the day to day costs but not construction. Think it also includes vehicle maintance but not acquisition:
Operating expenses are expenses incurred by transit agencies that are associated with operating
mass transportation services (vehicle operations, maintenance, and administration). Reconciling items
are expenses where accounting practices vary in the way transit agencies handle them due to local
requirements. The NTST excludes reconciling items such as depreciation, interest expenses, leases
and rentals.
To nitpick, many transit riders use a monthly pass; which changes the average cost a bit; dunno if it does for the RTD.
Yes, it's cheaper to buy a monthly pass. Plus they have some sort of "student pass" which I think costs even less.
The people who post here about how much it costs to drive a car include every possible thing they can think of-driver's license, car registration, what have you.
Your food is subsidized. Farmers get subsidies. A grocery store in my community got a subsidy to locate here.
My analogy was clearly about food subsidies for the poor. Does it make sense for your taxes to go to subsidizing my purchase of things I want, but don't need, such as a rack of baby back ribs or a six pack of Stone? The logic of keeping people fed because that is a public good does not extend to a person's purchase of discretionary luxury items. By the same logic, the argument that some of our roadway capacity (I've been specifically concerned here with the restricted access highway-freeway-interstate complex, not city streets) serves the public good does not extend to personal trips or commerce. The public good argument does not include my Amazon delivery, my trip to Six Flags, my commute. If these things are valuable to me, I should be willing to pay the cost and should not expect other's to subsidize them on my behalf.
Yes, it's cheaper to buy a monthly pass. Plus they have some sort of "student pass" which I think costs even less.
The people who post here about how much it costs to drive a car include every possible thing they can think of-driver's license, car registration, what have you.
That's mostly because this forum is a very small number of people discussing the costs and dominance of cars in the US. The average person is not in this conversation, and US culture revolves so closely around the automobile that those other costs are overlooked and not discussed.
It is extremely commonplace for transit to be picked apart and voted down by the public over the costs for tracks, stations, ROW, and rolling stock. It takes years for transit projects to take off because of these issues, all picked apart on the news. However, rarely is a road, highway, interchange picked apart in terms of detailed and hidden costs, partly because so much of the costs and taxes are already baked into life in the US.
Well, what does this mean then: "If it's expensive to travel, people would travel far fewer miles and would use the cheapest option to do so."
Sounds like you think that's a positive thing.
Definitional expensive, ie, that it is a thing with a direct cost to you. Put a dollar price a good that previously was unpriced in dollars and choices change accordingly by people consuming less of that thing. I was only saying that we would be forced to re-evaluate our choices about how we get around. It was purely descriptive.
The people who post here about how much it costs to drive a car include every possible thing they can think of-driver's license, car registration, what have you.
Well, that is part of the cost each of us faces as drivers and should be included in the total. But we should be so comprehensive for other modes, too, for consistency's sake.
That's mostly because this forum is a very small number of people discussing the costs and dominance of cars in the US. The average person is not in this conversation, and US culture revolves so closely around the automobile that those other costs are overlooked and not discussed.
It is extremely commonplace for transit to be picked apart and voted down by the public over the costs for tracks, stations, ROW, and rolling stock. It takes years for transit projects to take off because of these issues, all picked apart on the news. However, rarely is a road, highway, interchange picked apart in terms of detailed and hidden costs, partly because so much of the costs and taxes are already baked into life in the US.
Very interesting, not surprising. I see how cars per adult and cars per household go up dramatically outside the inner core. I'll be quite interested in seeing Denver's map, which I'll understand more in terms of neighborhoods.
I'll get to making Denver's map eventually but citydata.com has a cars per household map:
Separates by renter and owned homes, too. Though by household rather than per adult. Search for "Mean Number of Vehicles". Most of the city is at about 1 vehicle per rental unit or more but there's a small area around downtown that's at 0.5 - 0.7 vehicles per unit. Numbers not quite comparable to my map as mine didn't separate rental and owner housing.
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