Why are Canadian suburbs denser than U.S. suburbs?

[Bubble99]

Originally Posted by RMESMH

My grandmother started driving when she was 12 (in pre 1910 Los Angeles....DLs weren't yet required). Her father bought her a new car...mainly to drive her mother around. My great grandmother didn't want to drive.

Yep I believe cars started close to around 1910 in US and started slowly to makes way in popularity and you started get parking lot in front of store or side of the store. City planners started to make cities in 20s with popularity of car becoming more thing.

1910s and 1920s in US you started get parking in front of store or side of the store.

https://images.fineartamerica.com/im...y-archives.jpg

The cities from 1900 to bit 40s still had older main street or market street feel and vibe to it of park your car or horse in front store of old cowboy type yes one, two, three or four, five story building.

But cities in 40s and 50s started to have set backs with parking lots and the strip started to become the norm

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/dc/23/85/d...phy-route-.jpg

Storta like Las Vegas strip start with tight parking spot and little bit more bigger parking spot of 40s and 50s.

And others in 40s still had some old cowboy like look park car in front of store

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012...10_964x680.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/A-I2kLNwBak/maxresdefault.jpg

But by 60s and beyond big set backs and bigger parking lots along strip was more norm. And malls started become thing.

Than malls and box stores and just big cluster stores killed most of strip in new areas where strip is not built in 60s and beyond with strip still being built and even today but less thing than before. Well in new areas.

Sadly 50s or 60s some cities where faster or slower was turning point.

This where I find US cities interesting is lot cities in US from 1920 to mid 50s had this transition feel to it. But by 60s it was full car centric.

And well there are cities and towns in Canada of the 1920s to mid 50s look at feel. But in Toronto area seem city hall put cap on Vegas type strip you will not find much strip like streets in Toronto area but malls, box stores or cowboy style mixed use stores in older area.

The hot dog stands, ice cream stands, hotels, motels, dinners, movie theater, donut shops, car dealers yes new or used, repair shops, 711, fast food shops, tire shops, boxing, martial arts, dance, gym so on seem to be on off street than commercial strip. The big neon sign slow down and pull is there in Canada but more thing in the US

The hotels, motels and dinners and truck stops seem to be more by the highways and just before come in or leave the city or by airports.

I think with the higher density in cities in Toronto area they want to cut back on the curb count and so streets them self are more almost highway like. And don’t want too many cars turning and pulling out parking lots onto streets with lot of traffic so cut back on curb counts and put it on other street. You pull of main road onto other street to find those type stuff than many of US commercial strips.

[fusion2]

@ bubbles

Vegas is sort of an outlier in the U.S as it is a highly touristic place. It was built basically around entertainment from the get go.

The closest thing I can think of in Canada is Niagara falls.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.09115...7i16384!8i8192

As for Toronto since you keep bringing it up.

I'll throw around some links of streets in various areas. It probably isn't as simple as you are portraying. Unless i'm not understanding you. But yes, in Mississauga City Centre which is sort of built around a large shopping mall (2.2 million sq ft one), the roads are like highways I would agree. This is Burnhamthorpe which is a major artery in Mississauga that goes through the city centre

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.58685...7i16384!8i8192
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square...hopping_Centre

That said, Mississauga isn't all like this.

This is a stretch in Port Credit with street parking and also patio's on the street as well

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.55254...7i16384!8i8192

So there is a variation of streetcapes and street types in Toronto and its suburbs

In Toronto you get this too. This is in the gay villiage. You don't have a lot of spaces to park on the street. There are some parking lots scattered around.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.66430...7i16384!8i8192

This is also in Toronto and is called North York City Centre. It looks more suburban than the last link and on the streets as well, cars are not encouraged to park on them as you can see.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.76443...7i16384!8i8192

But it really depends on which part of any of the cities in Toronto and burbs you point to. Toronto is not a very homogenous city or metro. It's hard to pin down!

[Bubble99]

Originally Posted by fusion2

@ bubbles

Vegas is sort of an outlier in the U.S as it is a highly touristic place. It was built basically around entertainment from the get go.

The closest thing I can think of in Canada is Niagara falls.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.09115...7i16384!8i8192

As for Toronto since you keep bringing it up.

I'll throw around some links of streets in various areas. It probably isn't as simple as you are portraying. Unless i'm not understanding you. But yes, in Mississauga City Centre which is sort of built around a large shopping mall (2.2 million sq ft one), the roads are like highways I would agree. This is Burnhamthorpe which is a major artery in Mississauga that goes through the city centre

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.58685...7i16384!8i8192
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square...hopping_Centre

That said, Mississauga isn't all like this.

This is a stretch in Port Credit with street parking and also patio's on the street as well

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.55254...7i16384!8i8192

So there is a variation of streetcapes and street types in Toronto and its suburbs

In Toronto you get this too. This is in the gay villiage. You don't have a lot of spaces to park on the street. There are some parking lots scattered around.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.66430...7i16384!8i8192

This is also in Toronto and is called North York City Centre. It looks more suburban than the last link and on the streets as well, cars are not encouraged to park on them as you can see.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.76443...7i16384!8i8192

But it really depends on which part of any of the cities in Toronto and burbs you point to. Toronto is not a very homogenous city or metro. It's hard to pin down!

Out side of some small areas you don’t get much of strip and well Mississauga is used lot in this thread. If you look at map like on Cawhra rd from Queensway to Dundas it has lot of curb cuts.

But if you look at Queensway from border to border it more highway like.

If you look at Dundas it has sorta of strip vibe to it.

Burnhamthorp rd is more highway like than strip like and well a bit more curb cuts on the east side of city than Queensway. And from Hurontario st to central park bit more curb cuts.

Englinton Ave is too highway like not many curb cuts and does not have strip vibe.

Britannia is more highway like little curb cuts. And in Mavis and Britannia area it has lot of shopping in big cluster area in big box stores like very box stores like than strip. Big cluster of shopping in intersection area.

Derry Rd is more highway like you get some plazas along road here and there and lots of factories in areas and other areas you pull of Derry Rd to go onto a other street to access those plazas or factories. It is too highway like.

Lakeshore as more of strip vibe.

Hurontario St from service rd to centrel parkway has lot of plazas and curb cuts, but north of centrel parkway it is very modern suburb like.

Mavis from Dundas to Burnhamthorpe Rd has more curb cuts with plazas and industrial area.

Mississuga rd from kitimat rd to Britannia have bit of strip vibe.

But lot other main streets are more highway like.

In Brampton on Main street and Queen ST are really the only streets that have strip vibe other than Kennedy rd in older section.

And I don’t think Rutherford counts as it more of industrial area.

On steels it is more pull of main street onto other street to access the plazas, stores and factories.

In Toronto area city planners limited the amount of strip and curb cuts and lot through streets are more highway like.

The city of Winnipeg has more strip vibe than suburb cities in Toronto.

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by Bubble99

Out side of some small areas you don’t get much of strip and well Mississauga is used lot in this thread. If you look at map like on Cawhra rd from Queensway to Dundas it has lot of curb cuts.

But if you look at Queensway from border to border it more highway like.

If you look at Dundas it has sorta of strip vibe to it.

Burnhamthorp rd is more highway like than strip like and well a bit more curb cuts on the east side of city than Queensway. And from Hurontario st to central park bit more curb cuts.

Englinton Ave is too highway like not many curb cuts and does not have strip vibe.

Britannia is more highway like little curb cuts. And in Mavis and Britannia area it has lot of shopping in big cluster area in big box stores like very box stores like than strip. Big cluster of shopping in intersection area.

Derry Rd is more highway like you get some plazas along road here and there and lots of factories in areas and other areas you pull of Derry Rd to go onto a other street to access those plazas or factories. It is too highway like.

Lakeshore as more of strip vibe.

Hurontario St from service rd to centrel parkway has lot of plazas and curb cuts, but north of centrel parkway it is very modern suburb like.

Mavis from Dundas to Burnhamthorpe Rd has more curb cuts with plazas and industrial area.

Mississuga rd from kitimat rd to Britannia have bit of strip vibe.

But lot other main streets are more highway like.

In Brampton on Main street and Queen ST are really the only streets that have strip vibe other than Kennedy rd in older section.

And I don’t think Rutherford counts as it more of industrial area.

On steels it is more pull of main street onto other street to access the plazas, stores and factories.

In Toronto area city planners limited the amount of strip and curb cuts and lot through streets are more highway like.

The city of Winnipeg has more strip vibe than suburb cities in Toronto.

So you are talking a lot about Mississauga and Brampton. These are cities of their own. They are part of the Toronto urban area but they function as their own cities and have their own planners. If you are interested in suburban area streetscapes outside of Toronto city, I suggest you take a look at these cities. Just look at google maps and type each city and their city centre and work your way out. Again though, each of these are independent cities and have their own administration and planning, so you'll probably find variations with each as you have for streets in Mississauga and Brampton.

Vaughan
Oshawa
Ajax
Whitby
Markham
Richmond Hill
Hamilton
Oakville
Burlington

These are all cities that are contiguous with the city of Toronto

If you want to do the same for Toronto itself which now has one centralized urban planning department look at the following. Just keep in mind that these acted as their own cities before 1998 so you will still see differences. Scarborough I think you'll find lots of strip type development.

Old Toronto - Core city of the region including DT Toronto
York
East York
North York
Scarborough
Etobicoke

This way you'll get a more complete view of how these places are built

[Bubble99]

Originally Posted by fusion2

So you are talking a lot about Mississauga and Brampton. These are cities of their own. They are part of the Toronto urban area but they function as their own cities and have their own planners. If you are interested in suburban area streetscapes outside of Toronto city, I suggest you take a look at these cities. Just look at google maps and type each city and their city centre and work your way out. Again though, each of these are independent cities and have their own administration and planning, so you'll probably find variations with each as you have for streets in Mississauga and Brampton.

Vaughan
Oshawa
Ajax
Whitby
Markham
Richmond Hill
Hamilton
Oakville
Burlington

These are all cities that are contiguous with the city of Toronto

If you want to do the same for Toronto itself which now has one centralized urban planning department look at the following. Just keep in mind that these acted as their own cities before 1998 so you will still see differences. Scarborough I think you'll find lots of strip type development.

Old Toronto - Core city of the region including DT Toronto
York
East York
North York
Scarborough
Etobicoke

This way you'll get a more complete view of how these places are built

I think even in the US in some areas can look little different than other areas like the southwest than the northeast or even southeast.

I would think the Toronto area probably look bit different than say Calgary or Edmonto.

[SkyLark2019]

Urban planning.

Due to the climate of Canada, cities and towns had to be planned. They had shorter fair weather periods to erect buildings.

Versus the United States, where towns and cities sprung up when either settlers or other seekers found a nice place and decided to start building things.

That's a short take on the topic.

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by SkyLark2019

Urban planning.

Due to the climate of Canada, cities and towns had to be planned. They had shorter fair weather periods to erect buildings.

Versus the United States, where towns and cities sprung up when either settlers or other seekers found a nice place and decided to start building things.

That's a short take on the topic.

Don't forget that most cities in Canada are close to the U.S border. There are plenty of large cities in the U.S colder than Vancouver for example. Toronto really isn't that much colder than Chicago, Boston and NYC. Probably around the same as minneapolis so i'm not really sure that construction in Toronto or even Montreal would face that big of a climate difference as these large N.E U.S cities plus Chicago and Minneapolis.

[ssiguy]

Canadians are more receptive to living a more communal lifestyle than are more independent minded Americans. This is why large condo/apt buildings are not just found downtown but throughout the metropolitan areas. Space from your neighbours is not as high on the social calendar in Canada as it is in the US.

Also, due to Canada's more collective mindset, transit is not a dirty word only associated with the poor. Canadians do nor view transit as a social service but rather an essential one and hence being near transit is considered a positive even in wealthier neighbourhoods as denser housing makes transit service more viable.