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Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riley.
There will come a point where many of us will decide that what VT has to offer is NOT worth the price of admission. The problem will be finding a new place.
If and when coming to terms with Vermont not worth staying in, this is the conundrum to face. Where to go next? I've already lived in three other states and traveled to 45 states. Since moving here I've determined that being nomadic is not for me, living in the sunbelt is not for me, and I want to grow deeper roots here in Vermont and call it home.
But I have pondered leaving this state before as it certainly has its highs and lows. But then I remember, so does everywhere else and I ask myself, where would I go now? This leads to taking on the burdensome tasks of weighing pros and cons, taking another leap of faith, and going through the disruptive process of moving. I would have moved to Vermont sooner but we had to wait out some years to make it all come together. This was a hard place to get to and it took hard work and a lot of patience to have it all manifest. It was a blessing to get here one year before the pandemic. It would have been a lot harder to manage post pandemic.
Perspective is important. Much like casting a ballot for the lesser of two evils, when pondering other places to live, I see the quality of life declining elsewhere as well with many similar stories of homeless, drug use, crime, declining education, and an overall feeling of bat crap crazy mentality. Moving to a development crazed state like North Carolina or Florida would defeat many of the purposes of why I came to Vermont in the first place. Montana has its rural and scenic romance, but now it's at a very hefty price tag with many of the same struggles all states are going through now.
Of course there are many nuances for other states that perhaps might match ones values better at whatever stage of life they may be in, or their budget. Vermont is a vibe, it's not for everyone and probably not agreeable to most people. It's a bit of an outlier state. There are some things here that I'm not well contented with, like my current employer relocating their operations from Franklin County to Chittenton County and having to commute there in the future. Even with that challenge ahead, I still don't want to move anywhere else. Too burdensome to take on given all the conditions of the 2020's that we're currently living in. It's an interesting time to be alive, I'd rather spend my time here than most other places. I understand where previous posters are coming from as the safety and security element that was once palpable here is slipping away. But then where would you go?
Last edited by Champ le monstre du lac; 11-10-2023 at 05:05 AM..
Thank you all for the candid opinions. I ask, because I'm looking to move back north. I'm currently in the Southeast, originally from Canada but parents moved down here when I was a kid. I'm tired of the climate, and more and more tired of the general mentality here. I grew up in a very religious conservative home and area here, but the older I get and the more I think about things, the less I agree with much of it.
I looked in several of the places Champ mentioned, and my issues are the same as his with them. Either too populated, or too expensive. I had some siblings that lived in Montana, and me and my wife made a short trip out there once. It's beautiful, but has become priced way out of my range now, unless it's miles away from anything remotely like amenities. Same for Idaho. Washington, Oregon, and southern Alaska are other options we have thought about. Also even considering a move back to Canada, I have family in Ontario still.
Having said, the three NE states of VT, NH and ME are currently top of the list. I'm a very outdoors loving person, like to hike, camp, swim etc. My wife is partially disabled, but very crafty and artistic, and can do anything in the fiber arts world. Looking for somewhere that would have a good balance of being country enough to satisfy me and outdoorness and my like of privacy and quiet, with being close enough to a community that her artistic work could thrive in. We also enjoy good food of all types at non-chain restaurants.
Moving from here to almost anywhere that we would seem to like, is going to cost more in taxes and cost of living. So it's not a question of what's cheaper, it's a question of where will I get the most enjoyment of life for it.
Sorry if that's a bit of a ramble. If anything is unclear let me know and I'll try to elaborate more.
Thank you all for the candid opinions. I ask, because I'm looking to move back north. I'm currently in the Southeast, originally from Canada but parents moved down here when I was a kid. I'm tired of the climate, and more and more tired of the general mentality here. I grew up in a very religious conservative home and area here, but the older I get and the more I think about things, the less I agree with much of it.
I looked in several of the places Champ mentioned, and my issues are the same as his with them. Either too populated, or too expensive. I had some siblings that lived in Montana, and me and my wife made a short trip out there once. It's beautiful, but has become priced way out of my range now, unless it's miles away from anything remotely like amenities. Same for Idaho. Washington, Oregon, and southern Alaska are other options we have thought about. Also even considering a move back to Canada, I have family in Ontario still.
Having said, the three NE states of VT, NH and ME are currently top of the list. I'm a very outdoors loving person, like to hike, camp, swim etc. My wife is partially disabled, but very crafty and artistic, and can do anything in the fiber arts world. Looking for somewhere that would have a good balance of being country enough to satisfy me and outdoorness and my like of privacy and quiet, with being close enough to a community that her artistic work could thrive in. We also enjoy good food of all types at non-chain restaurants.
Moving from here to almost anywhere that we would seem to like, is going to cost more in taxes and cost of living. So it's not a question of what's cheaper, it's a question of where will I get the most enjoyment of life for it.
Sorry if that's a bit of a ramble. If anything is unclear let me know and I'll try to elaborate more.
Vermont sounds like a place you would fit in and find everything you are looking for. On the eastern portion of VT, you get the benefit of taking advantage of the hiking trails and shopping in NH. NH also has Dartmouth Hospital which is where VTers go for better health care. I live in the western part of VT and enjoy going to Lake George in NY. A lot of people living in VT are moving to Maine. I don't know what the draw is other than being closer to the ocean. Don't count the Lake George and Saratoga area out either. You can drive five miles out of those towns and be in a rural area. There is much more to do in those towns also.
One thing you must do if you are moving to VT is check the soil to make sure it isn't clay and have someone check the water. Very important before you purchase a home.
Lots of laws have changed on guns. They just passed a 72 hour waiting period after passing a background check to pick up a gun. When it's a 2 hour round trip to a gun store that's a big deal. The magazine ban a few years back. And now Dick Sears (senate judiciary chair) is saying he'd support a semi-auto ban. All of which most gunowners in the state are ignoring or finding ways around. But the state won't keep career felons locked up, won't allow towns to clean up the hotels full of homeless that are the source of a lot of crime, etc., but sure as heck will go after you if you defend yourself. There was a judge last year basically coerced into retiring because the legislature was clearly going to block him from staying at his review because he has been hard on the criminals, while Judge Jiron and similar continue to destroy communities with their decisions (the Caledonian Record kept close track of Jiron but he's simply moved to another district to do the same).
What you're describing is people just being inconsiderate of neighbors. And that's gotten terrible. There's just some plain nasty stuff I'm seeing that's wearing me thin. Things are rapidly changing but not in good ways. I target practice by my home. Just as with construction projects and running chainsaws and such I won't be out before 8 AM or after 5 PM but there is someone a couple miles away who will be out whenever. I'm a bit insulated from that but not always depending on wind direction. The ATV crowd is my biggest source of trouble. I used to be fairly supportive of them but no longer. Laws won't help you anymore than me. When I've reported things to the police they basically don't even care. Always too busy to send someone. Told me once to email photos and videos to a state trooper. He never responded once.
The kids can't read or do basic math coming out of the local schools but we continue to dump money into them like that will fix them, paid with taxes that are driving people out of their homes and/or further and further into poverty. Everything is simply a mess and/or failing in this state but people keep plowing ahead doing the same things that got us here.
I feel most of the problems in this state start with the school system. The problem is nobody speaks out and the people that do are ignored or trashed on social media. Some people I have spoken to just want to live in the world of denial because it is easier for them. Others show support with private emails but refuse to stand by me publicly. As far as fighting back against the school system's failure to give the children a good education in spite of being one of the highest in per pupil spending, I have given up. Obviously, the parents weren't given a good education either so it has been going on a long time before I moved here. I think it depends on where you live though. More affluent areas are getting a better education than the district I live in.
Lots of laws have changed on guns. They just passed a 72 hour waiting period after passing a background check to pick up a gun. When it's a 2 hour round trip to a gun store that's a big deal. The magazine ban a few years back. And now Dick Sears (senate judiciary chair) is saying he'd support a semi-auto ban. All of which most gunowners in the state are ignoring or finding ways around. But the state won't keep career felons locked up, won't allow towns to clean up the hotels full of homeless that are the source of a lot of crime, etc., but sure as heck will go after you if you defend yourself. There was a judge last year basically coerced into retiring because the legislature was clearly going to block him from staying at his review because he has been hard on the criminals, while Judge Jiron and similar continue to destroy communities with their decisions (the Caledonian Record kept close track of Jiron but he's simply moved to another district to do the same).
What you're describing is people just being inconsiderate of neighbors. And that's gotten terrible. There's just some plain nasty stuff I'm seeing that's wearing me thin. Things are rapidly changing but not in good ways. I target practice by my home. Just as with construction projects and running chainsaws and such I won't be out before 8 AM or after 5 PM but there is someone a couple miles away who will be out whenever. I'm a bit insulated from that but not always depending on wind direction. The ATV crowd is my biggest source of trouble. I used to be fairly supportive of them but no longer. Laws won't help you anymore than me. When I've reported things to the police they basically don't even care. Always too busy to send someone. Told me once to email photos and videos to a state trooper. He never responded once.
The kids can't read or do basic math coming out of the local schools but we continue to dump money into them like that will fix them, paid with taxes that are driving people out of their homes and/or further and further into poverty. Everything is simply a mess and/or failing in this state but people keep plowing ahead doing the same things that got us here.
Thank you for articulating a few of the many troubling issues here in VT.
We've stayed here for a few reasons: We are 'ok' financially. For now. The crime problems are not close to us. For now. We have very good neighbors (thank God). For now, although I don't think anyone is moving anytime soon. Noise is mostly chain saw and riding mowers....We've wandered around the country a bit and have not been able to find a landscape/environment that we want to live in. Too many people elsewhere, too much traffic, too much crime, drugs (they are everywhere). We shall see.
Don't get me started on the schools. Not only are academics in the tank, the buildings themselves are in various states of disrepair so everything is multi-million dollar bonds to be paid for by you know who. People refuse to consolidate schools and the legislature refuses to work on restructuring the education finance system to provide some relief for tax payers.
To be fair, bad education and drugs seem to be a universal problem now. I haven't looked into anywhere yet that someone doesn't have the same complaint. The cities have crack or heroin, the country has meth, everyone complains about the education system, public and private. People around here talk about meth heads and such, but in 20+ years I've had one incident of property crime, and never really run into them in the rural area I live. In town sometimes of course.
Funny story about the target shooting thing, where I grew up in VA they was a neighbor that seemed to have a small arsenal and would use it all every holiday. I remember them sounding like they were in a firefight in in the middle of a December blizzard, at night lol. It never really worried me, they always seemed to be safe about it and have a proper backstop. Was kinda crazy though.
If and when coming to terms with Vermont not worth staying in, this is the conundrum to face. Where to go next? I've already lived in three other states and traveled to 45 states. Since moving here I've determined that being nomadic is not for me, living in the sunbelt is not for me, and I want to grow deeper roots here in Vermont and call it home.
But I have pondered leaving this state before as it certainly has its highs and lows. But then I remember, so does everywhere else and I ask myself, where would I go now? This leads to taking on the burdensome tasks of weighing pros and cons, taking another leap of faith, and going through the disruptive process of moving. I would have moved to Vermont sooner but we had to wait out some years to make it all come together. This was a hard place to get to and it took hard work and a lot of patience to have it all manifest. It was a blessing to get here one year before the pandemic. It would have been a lot harder to manage post pandemic.
Perspective is important. Much like casting a ballot for the lesser of two evils, when pondering other places to live, I see the quality of life declining elsewhere as well with many similar stories of homeless, drug use, crime, declining education, and an overall feeling of bat crap crazy mentality. Moving to a development crazed state like North Carolina or Florida would defeat many of the purposes of why I came to Vermont in the first place. Montana has its rural and scenic romance, but now it's at a very hefty price tag with many of the same struggles all states are going through now.
Of course there are many nuances for other states that perhaps might match ones values better at whatever stage of life they may be in, or their budget. Vermont is a vibe, it's not for everyone and probably not agreeable to most people. It's a bit of an outlier state. There are some things here that I'm not well contented with, like my current employer relocating their operations from Franklin County to Chittenton County and having to commute there in the future. Even with that challenge ahead, I still don't want to move anywhere else. Too burdensome to take on given all the conditions of the 2020's that we're currently living in. It's an interesting time to be alive, I'd rather spend my time here than most other places. I understand where previous posters are coming from as the safety and security element that was once palpable here is slipping away. But then where would you go?
So very well said, Champ de monstre du lac. Thank you.
And it does always come down to 'where would we go?' I cannot come up with one place I'd prefer to be. My home is here.
I've lived in 2 other states - Another northeastern state similar to Vermont in it's tax structure, and a southern state with lower taxes. I liked living in the southern state the least. Too much traffic, too much crime. So much sprawl. No sense of community (could have been where I lived in a suburb of a large city). Religion seeping into every aspect of life (as someone born and brought up here, I found that odd, as here, people tend to keep their religious beliefs to themselves).
For me, it's quality of life. I love the peacefulness here. The sense of the community. Unlike others who posted here, I have a different view of the school system, at least the district my kids are in. I have no complaints with the education they are receiving.
Does Vermont have it's flaws? Absolutely, but Vermont is home and feels like where I belong.
I've lived in 2 other states - Another northeastern state similar to Vermont in it's tax structure, and a southern state with lower taxes. I liked living in the southern state the least. Too much traffic, too much crime. So much sprawl. No sense of community (could have been where I lived in a suburb of a large city). Religion seeping into every aspect of life (as someone born and brought up here, I found that odd, as here, people tend to keep their religious beliefs to themselves).
For me, it's quality of life. I love the peacefulness here. The sense of the community. Unlike others who posted here, I have a different view of the school system, at least the district my kids are in. I have no complaints with the education they are receiving.
Does Vermont have it's flaws? Absolutely, but Vermont is home and feels like where I belong.
Someone else mentioned religion in the south being a issue. Can you tell me a little about that. Do they walk around preaching the Bible?
Just so you know, you may want to update your profile because I just looked at it to see what school district you live in and it states you don't have any children. I wanted to see what school district you feel is giving a good education, I wasn't being nosy. I went on FB earlier and a former history teacher posted how well of an education the VT students are getting and it was not very good.
I know I have mentioned this before but maybe when everyone has the time, look over the Bills and Resolutions our Senators are trying or have passed. And while you're there, check out the Representative's Bios that are submitting these Bills. I am very concerned because these elected officials aren't trying get anything passed to lower taxes or help the middle class. It is all for "equity" and anything to make life harder for the hard working people. I'm sure it is like that in every state but for now, I live in VT.
I don't think I've looked at my profile since creating this account umpteen years ago...but I do now have 2 kids. One in elementary, one in high school. I would prefer not to say where I am located for privacy, but I am in the northern half of the state.
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