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Hi! We moved to FR last March, and are planning on leaving, when we can sell our house. If you want a thriving area to raise your kids, I'd look at Winchester. There's a lot to do, there's shopping, activities for the kids, etc. The schools here in FR are not good, the water is nasty, and coinservative doesn't begin to describe it. Stephens City is not much more than an intersection off I-81, and Strasburg is equally small. If you are truly a very small town family, consider one of these three towns. But if you want to go to dinner or shop without having to drive to another town, look at Winchester.
Definately planning on looking in the Winchester area.... That said, and I've asked this before and got no response, but what specifics can you give me as far as schools in Front Royal being bad..... Do they just fall way short on the SOL testing??? Lot's of criminal activity??? Or have you had some personal run-ins with faculty or staff that has turned you off???
Almost every town has "Those schools you don't want to go to", but I really need more specific information at this point....
Hi VAFury. Glad you're doing homework. I was stunned after I moved in the area and found a Superfund site about 10 miles from me. Glad to know you're staying away from Warren County -- it's not worth moving into, in my opinion.
Yes, there are many people on well water in this entire area. If you live outside of a subdivision, you're probably on well water. That said, let me warn you about just-how-hard-the-water-is!! This entire region has very hard water -- so hard that you are forced into getting some type of a water-filtration system. If you move towards western Frederick County, you have sulfur and rust issues, too.
There is also high bacterial count off-and-on throughout the year in some areas and the creeks, streams, and rivers suffer, too. I am at the SE end of Frederick County and our water test showed e coli at the first water test. Coming to the home w/ a newborn and 2 year old, we opted for an ultraviolet filter added to our well water -- can't be too careful with small children. That was $1,000 we didn't plan to spend after we moved in.
The Shenandoah River has a problem w/ dioxins, PCBs, cadmium, and arsenic, too. Most of the toxins came from Avtex but there is also the large printing plant at Strasburg that contributes to the pollution. (FYI: Don't eat the fish -- check the Fish & Wildlife info on fish consumption. )
The Avtex pollution was a political issue and they were allowed to pollute because at the time they were the only mfr. for some of our Space Shuttle pieces. Mary Sue Terry, VA's Atty General took on the issue and battled hard against Avtex. She finally 'won' and Avtex was shut down. In 1989 the PCBs were finally linked to Avtex.
The Superfund site remains and the toxins have not all been removed. Luckily that site was identified as being a critical site. Here's the full EPA blurb: http://www.epa.gov/reg3hwmd/npl/VAD070358684.htm
If you buy a place anywhere in this region and you use well-water, you'll definately need a softening system. I tried going without one but the build-up will ruin plumbing and hardware. There really is no way to get around softening the water, and there is issue of residue salt remaining in the water when you use a salt filter to soften your water......We did research and switched over to Potassium and have been much happier. Even though it's more expensive, it is longer-lasting and safer.
Glad you understand about Fauquier County. Loudoun County is the same -- high growth plans, developments everywhere, commuter-bedroom community lifestyles, and already too expensive already. Frederick County is fast approaching that growth, too, and there has been growing concerns w/ the fire departments that there are not enough volunteers in-the-area during peak hours since so many people commute.
You wrote: Actually all those places have ways that don't take very long that don't involve interstates as well.... Strasburg has 55 (I believe), Stephen's City I can take 11 (Valley Pike) through Strasburg to 55, and Winchester has a road 342??? or something that goes directly between the two..... Hopefully trucks are not as big of an issue on those roads, but either way, not a long commute.....
Route 55 can be used but it is very back-roads oriented but cars travel fast. With little to no shoulder and oncoming traffic, a head-on would be very dangerous going 50-60mph. Then there is the deer population on these back roads....Basically, Rt. 55 is not the safest road in the area, plus it's not a cut-through fast route like you believe it may be. You'll have to try it to see for yourself. I almost never use that route.
Route 11 is the old Valley Pike (from wagon trails days -- it's a historic road). Route 11 has lots of stop-n-go traffic, lights in all towns, and every town has a reduced speed limit of 25 mph. Between Stephens City and Middletown, you can go upwards of 55mph and it's relatively safe. Same is between Middletown and Strasburg.
Route 522 runs through a portion of Winchester and runs north & south. It's safer since this is a divided highway but there is zero shoulder and there is heavy truck traffic.
Route 340 (don't know if this is the road you are thinking about) runs eastward into Clarke County and Berryville, onward into the Harpers Ferry WV area. That is not a divided highway until you pass the Berryville VA area and there are lots of towns on the road. Nice road, though. Not sure if that is the road you are referring to.
Incidently, existing homes in this entire region are a better deal than the new homes. All developers are building McMansions on postage stamp lots and the prices have been very inflated. Prices on many of the new homes have been getting reduced for the past 4 months.
I think Lynn S's information is great, I hope you take it to heart. It seems like there are more and more people moving out here, so attitudes might change, but they haven't yet. Front Royal is pretty blue collar, it's not a place with a lot of wealth, that I can see, and consequently you have an infrastructure that's similar. Our grocery stores aren't great (the Martin's in Stephens City is really nice), and if you want to go out to eat but not at a diner or fast food, you have very limited choices. The town water is awful, it smells and is very hard, as Lynn said. The Shenandoah is beautiful, but so polluted that you shoudn't fish in it. Zoning is an issue. It seems to me that this area has never seen the value of protecting its incredible natural resources. It's an extremely conservative area in general, which seems to be influenced somewhat by the presence of Christendom College, which you might want to read about on the web. Home schooling is big, and I think what strikes me about the public schools is that they're not progressive, more than anything. That being said, there has been an influx of new teachers as the area grows, so it may change. It really depends on what you want, and what you consider important. We moved out here b/c we love the scenic beauty of the Calley and wanted a more peaceful lifestyle, but ideologically we are so different from the people we've met, that we haven't really fit in yet. What we've learned is that maybe we're more city people, who spend weekends exploring the Valley. If you want any diversity at all, look at Winchester. If that's not your thing, look at the smaller towns. But do keep in mind what Lynn says about the back roads, too, they are heavily trafficked, and you can get behind someone going really slow. And occasionally, a tractor. So you always want to allow time and a half on a two lane road out here.
Novanwbie is spot-on about Front Royal being "blue collar" but I hate using that word choice since I don't feel that blue collar workers are second-class citizens but the meaning is seemingly so. That said, there is a mind-set in Front Royal and if you travel in and around the region enough, you'll discover it yourself. There is a lazy ignorance there -- I have no idea why it exists but it does and it's apparent when I go there and try to do business or deal with Warren County's government. The place is out in left-field for reasons I can't explain. When Avtex was being investigated, all the townspeople and the paper could talk about was the concern for the 600+ Avtex employees who were going to lose their jobs. (Hello?? What about poisoning our world??) Oh nevermind....
One thing I always love to see in Front Royal is the occasional backpacker who has hoofed it off the Appalachian Trail and walked into town for some grub, refueling, and perhaps a stayover in a local motel. Not every town can boast the AT so closeby. Or the National Forest. Or Skyline Drive. Or The Blue Ridge (and they can truly be evergreen blue).
Restaurants? Not many. Fast food? More shops than you will ever need in your life....hope you like fries with that grease-burger. Front Royal, Stephens City, and most towns off of I-81 only offer fast food. Or pizza. One could argue that this is because of the interstate traffic, but egads -- what about residents? Why do we only have fast food to choose from?
Winchester has a few nice restaurants, and the Walking Mall is pretty nice (although there isn't much retail business because it's, well, a walking mall, outside exposed to the elements, and parking is an issue for people who like better to park in the Fire Zone so they can run into a store). Out in the countryside, there are 2 5-star restaurants: L'Auberge Provincal and The Inn At Little Washington. Those are special places but at least this region has 2 of them!
I agree with your comments about The Shenandoah Valley, in general. I'm also a transplant coming from the Montgomery County MD area. I still don't understand why this area has never tried to capitalize and truly honor the Civil War history that is so rich here. I've also never figured out why the Chamber of Commerce offices don't encourage the 400,000+ October Skyline Drive visitors to shop nearby or stay in the hotels here. And isn't it a shame that the apple orchards are all being sold for developments because we can buy apples cheaper elsewhere like New Zealand than from my farm-friends right down the road??
Locals don't realize what they have had, to be honest. The 'wealth' here is being nabbed by out-of-towners to take advantage of the business opportunities. Locals don't seem to realize much except now they have great shopping and the Parks and Rec built ballfields east of Stephens City.
Our school experience: I had 3 sons that attended the schools near Stephens City (in Frederick County). All 3 were college-bound and did fine, although none of them were ever adequately challenged. All 3 were bored, would say they were bored, and everyone knew they were bored. Lucky for everyone they weren't discipline problems. They were all cited as 'gifted and talented' but none got what they truly should have -- and numerous conferences to try and get more funding, better teaching, more stimulating studies, etc. was of little consequence. All 3 have moved on into and/or graduated from college, in business.
One issue that is a sore subject with me is that the local high school, Sherando, has had such a poor administration that they do nothing to discourage 16-year old students from dropping out. I took this to task 2 years in a row when I saw several youngsters drop out. SOMEONE has to look out for them since our school administrators seemingly don't. Why is any high school able to allow students to literally walk into the office and just say they want to drop out and get the walking-papers so swiftly? Where does a school get merit when this occurs? What does that say about responsible administrators?! Our President's motto of "Leave No Child Behind" should include "Let No Child Drop Out", in my opinion. Yet I have witnessed this over and over again. Does this happen across the USA or is it a local problem here? No matter where, it is wrong! (My pet peeve here....sorry!)
As far as people, on the surface, many people appear friendly enough. People are polite. But from my own experiences, locals stick with their own. No matter what, family is still important here and there are quite a few churches. People who are new here ("transplants") are becoming more commonplace and the area has no choice but to accept the phenomenon and adapt. I do not believe the Public School systems in any of these counties will be able to handle the big increase of Hispanics and the drain that the language barrier will create in the schools. Already the stores are changing over signs to bilingual and fast food stores are teaching managers how to speak rudimentary Spanish.
When I moved here in 1987, the County population was about 18,000. Last Census had the County's population around 67,000. I haven't heard a horse and carriage on my country road for 4 years now. Sad to see that "progress" has had such an effect.
I have to totally, 100% agree with Lynn S. I hadn't thought of it her way, but the "lazy ignorance" is just exactly what we've encountered in FR. A casual acceptance of everything, without putting thought into it. Of course, this is a generalization, I do see signs protesting the proposed Dominion Power lines, for example, so there are some people who get involved. But not that many, compared to other places I've lived. The people I know all send their kids to private schools, so I can't comment on the public schools. But the high numbers of school-age kids I see roaming about our neighborhood during the day (on a regular basis) concerns me. We actually had to kick kids out of our yard who were sitting on our back stoop smoking pot. I also agree that locals stick with their own. That being said, wherever you move, get involved in something that's important to you, whether it's church or sports or volunteering. That's the best way to connect. Restaurants are an issue, if you like going out but don't want fast food or a national chain (only available in Winchester right now)
It's funny, too, we seem to have two distinct groups of tourists in the summer (when it does get fairly congested): the RV crowd who pack a ton of people into one RV and show up at Martins, blocking 8 or 9 parking spaces; and the through hikers -- people who are doing the Appalachian Trail and thumb rides to the natural foods store. I think the tourist season must be what's keeping FR afloat. Certianly the scenic beauty is incredible. There have been countless days when I've driven home from work and wished I had a camera with me to capture the beauty. But I'd rather live in Winchester, and drive down to the Skyline Drive, than live in Front Royal and be there in 5 minutes. To me, the day to day amenities are more important.
But I'd rather live in Winchester, and drive down to the Skyline Drive, than live in Front Royal and be there in 5 minutes. To me, the day to day amenities are more important.
I think this is a key fact that sounds like my wife talking as well..... She's going up to look this weekend and I'll suggest that she look closer to Winchester or Stephens City......
What can you tell me about the Friday Night concerts over the summer in Downtown Front Royal, etc.... Sounded like a nice little social thing.... Also the Wine & Craft fair and things like that.....
Give me SOMETHING POSITIVE to hang my hat on here.....
Hey there! Glad you posted again. I was hoping you'd resurface because I did want to let you know of some of the good and positive things next -- not just all the bad stuff. I don't have to drive anywhere to see a gorgeous sunrise or sunset on quite a few days.....what a way to start or end a day! A sunrise with the Blue Ridge is truly a beautiful site. And when the weather is good, it's not uncommon to see a hot air balloon in the near distance.
There is ALWAYS something to do either in the area or via a short drive elsewhere. And there is always Washington DC -- that trip is best during the weekend and will take about 65 minutes to get into NW to tour museums or monuments.
Winchester area -- The large, relatively new hospital is EXCELLENT. And because the area is growing and the hospital is so good, there are also quite a few good doctors who have relocated into the area. Add those docs in with some of the docs that have been practicing here and it's quite safe to say that our medical community is very satisfactory here. Since we're not far from WV or MD, some people travel into the area for their medical needs.
Winchester Schools: Handley High School is a beautiful older school that has been publicly endowed by Judge Handley who admired Winchester but was not a resident. At his death, he bequeathed money in a trust for this school and for the Handley Library (a very ornate, historical building). Both are worth seeing if you like architecture.
Old homes in parts of Winchester are worth touring, and riding down some of the city streets will show you such a wide variety of architecture within one town.
Colleges: Small local community college in Middletown (Lord Fairfax Comm. College) offering a number of concentrations for 2-year degrees. The area only has one 4-year college: Shenandoah University. That school used to be a musical conservatory but has branched out into other degrees including theatre, history, business, some medically-related degrees, and the Pharmacy school. I am under the impression that Shenandoah Univ will eventually tie into the hospital and become a medical school....all the signs are there.
Stuff to do: In Winchester, there are summer concerts every weekend near the Old Town -- they're called "Bluemont Concert Series" and you can find out more about them on their website.
In and around Winchester, there is the Winchester Little Theatre, Shenandoah Univ classical music concerts and occasional theatre, sponsored historical trips through Lord Fairfax Comm. College, plus area theatres. Right now there are 3 places to see movies and there is a plan for one 16-theatre complex (big-city-life is around the corner, it seems).
Some of the more unique events: Hot Air Balloon Fest every October at Virginia Arboretum (it's a real site to see when the balloons are ascending!). There's an annual BBQ contest, the annual Apple Blossom Parade, hay rides, cider pressing events in the fall, etc.
Winchester has a new Shenandoah Museum that took over a very old property and mansion and there are curated exhibits, home and garden tours there.
Every county here as an annual County Fair. The Warren County Fair is the best, I think, and every year they get a top country/pop singer. The draw that night is large but the admission is not expensive.
Outside of town you can go horseback riding at nearby farms where they teach riding or rodeo stuff, go to caverns, ride trails, golf at one of the 5 golf courses in the nearby area, swim, hike...Another thing you may enjoy are the auctions -- sometimes estate sales, sometimes a farm auction. Always a bargain somewhere and the auctioneers are locals who really know how to 'sing' while they auction something off.
A local plantation, Belle Grove Plantation, is situated in Middletown and has about 150 acres (I may be wrong about the size -- may be more). Each year, the Plantation hosts a number of special events which include the Battle of Cedar Creek Reenactment every October. If you've never been to a Civil War event like this, you need to see one -- it is very interesting.
The Plantation also hosts a beer fest (you guessed it, pay the entry fee and sample the brews) and other annual events. Plus you can tour the place. I used to volunteer there and it's a gorgeous property (National Trust). On the same property is The Heater House, another National Trust property that is associated with the Battle of Cedar Creek.
Also in Middletown there is the Wayside Theatre and it's part of the Wayside Inn, one of the oldest consecutively-running inns (w/ restaurant) in the US.
The Frederick/Warren/Clarke County area is about 40 minutes drive from Harpers Ferry, WV and the area not only has a National Forest, but a shuttle going from satellite parking into the town where you can tour the historic town as a pedestrian. The town is very quaint and filled with history and antique shops. And, if you are a white-water enthusiast, you can raft or kayak in the area, too. (Or fish) I put in at Millville and take out below Harpers Ferry for a 7 mile trip. The confluence of the Potomac and Shenandoah River meets at Harpers Ferry, so the town can be flooded during spring or winter-snow-melt and that in itself is a sight to see.
The entire northern portion of the Shenandoah Valley has vineyards, so there are many weekends where a group of vineyards will host a wine tasting event. Also, the individual vineyards offer wine tasting to visitors/customers.
Interesting places to go: Virginia Arboretum, Long Branch, Luray Caverns, Skyline Drive, George Washington Natl. Forest, Belle Grove Plantation, Cedar Creek Historical Museum, Shenandoah Museum, Discovery Museum (for children)....
If you're a history buff, there are many old cemeteries, battlefields, and historical buildings to visit. Plenty of places in every direction.
So is there anything listed that appeals to you ? What floats-your-boats? Do you have other specific questions?
History major and I love ALL things Civil War, so that's one of my draws to the area..... Am into outdoor activities, though much of what the area offers will be new to me (not an expert canoe or kayak guy) and am a wine enthusiast who LOVES to taste wine and pretend like I know what I'm talking about...
Outdoor concerts and fair and festivals are awesome..... Also saw the Drive-in movie theatre in Stephens City which has me tickled as I haven't been to one since I was about 10...... One of the houses we're looking at is right between that and the preserved portion of the Cedar Creek Battlefield, so I'm a little giddy at the prospect of living there, but again, my wife is going to make the final call....
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