Why is DC metro Maryland so much better than DC metro Virginia (Silver Spring: new house, neighborhood)

[Mr Beco]

Originally Posted by cry_havoc

I find the quality of life, the quality of people, the atmosphere, the traffic, etc are better in MD.

What's going on in Bethesda, new construction and planned construction, might change this. Traffic is bad in all areas, not just Northern VA. The Metro is better in Montgomery County, only because it was put in decades ago. Just a feel, but it seems as if Northern Virginia has more juice, more action. Firms want to lease space in these markets. Montgomery County seems slow....

[cry_havoc]

Originally Posted by JEB77

I understood the analogy as intended completely. You seem to confuse persistence with persuasiveness.

I am not being persistent or persuasive, I am just stating facts. Whether you choose to accept the truth or continue to deny has no bearing on reality.

You also misunderstood the analogy. I think you fundamentally misunderstand Brazil, Maryland, and Virginia. However, I do believe you are acting in good faith.

[Mr Beco]

Originally Posted by NOVAmtneer82

The OP is entitled to his own opinion but a few relevant points:

1.) Re: traffic. Of course Virginia traffic is worse. It is growing much much faster than the Maryland portion of the region and the vast majority of new jobs have located here. One of the main reasons the Beltway from the Legion Bridge to Tysons is so gridlocked is because of all of the Maryland commuters going to/from Virginia jobs. Ever try merging from the Dulles Toll Road onto the inner loop in Tysons during the evening rush? It's a madhouse. The majority of those people are Maryland bound. Same with GW Parkway.

There are just as many cars coming from Maryland to Tysons as there are cars coming from Tysons to Maryland, over the Legion Bridge. It's gridlocked, both ways.

2.) Business climate- Everyone always acts like Virginia is just defense contracting related industries and while that is a large share of the corporate pie so to speak, there are many more. In just the past 5 years Volkswagen, Rolls-Royce, Hilton Worldwide and Intelsat have all located their corporate headquarters to Northern Virginia. They all could have chosen Maryland but didn't. Bechtel itself is moving 600 jobs from Frederick to Reston. The FBI is strongly leaning towards Northern Virginia. Northrup Grumman, SAIC and CSC (defense I know) all explored Maryland as a relocation option but didn't...they chose Northern Virginia. All of these instances (plus many more smaller companies) should speak volumes about Maryland's business climate.

Little things like Airport access and available sites has a lot to do with this, I don't believe tax incentives are that different. Its Montgomery County that everyone wants to locate to, Prince Georges is the weak link of the major counties. Frederick County has done a wonderful job attracting companies until the recession hit.


I will give you that Virginia could be far more progressive on certain political issues but at the end of the day Maryland could also clearly be a little more focused on growing business and finding ways to reduce the tax burden on its citizens..

I will say, until recently, Montgomery County has been the conservative one, now they play a catch-up game with things like shopping and major firms.

[cry_havoc]

Originally Posted by Barry Rock

I will say, until recently, Montgomery County has been the conservative one, now they play a catch-up game with things like shopping and major firms.

I'll take quality of life over shopping.

It is not like these firms even pay taxes in VA. They use loopholes and give nothing back to the state. All the development is a burden on VA. It creates externalities while not making life any better.

In a way MD does owe some of its success to NOVA taking on the bad elements of growth. People in MD can enjoy the good of VA without having to deal with the negative. This is a great point on why MD is better.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by cry_havoc

I'll take quality of life over shopping.

It is not like these firms even pay taxes in VA. They use loopholes and give nothing back to the state. All the development is a burden on VA. It creates externalities while not making life any better.

In a way MD does owe some of its success to NOVA taking on the bad elements of growth. People in MD can enjoy the good of VA without having to deal with the negative. This is a great point on why MD is better.

Yes, businesses in Virginia pay taxes. You have higher personal tax rates in MD to compensate for the smaller number of taxpaying businesses and to fund more generous social spending programs. If you are a recipient of those expenditures, you may prefer Maryland. If you prefer to pay lower taxes, or to have a shorter commute to work, it is a decided negative and one reason, among several, why the number of people moving from Montgomery to Fairfax in recent years typically has exceeded those moving in the opposite direction. Add in other NoVa jurisdictions like Loudoun and the picture is even clearer.

The study that I alluded to earlier - which did contain many factual comparisons - led many who otherwise would have been inclined to prefer suburban MD over NoVa, to acknowledge that, on objective grounds, NoVa is now a better place for most to live than MD. See, for example:

Even Montgomery agrees: Life looks brighter in Fairfax

Of course, there are those for whom MD works better, and you're entitled to your own personal opinion. No one can ever take that away from you.

[cry_havoc]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Yes, businesses in Virginia pay taxes. You have higher personal tax rates in MD to compensate for the smaller number of taxpaying businesses and to fund more generous social spending programs. If you are a recipient of those expenditures, you may prefer Maryland. If you prefer to pay lower taxes, or to have a shorter commute to work, it is a decided negative and one reason, among several, why the number of people moving from Montgomery to Fairfax in recent years typically has exceeded those moving in the opposite direction. Add in other NoVa jurisdictions like Loudoun and the picture is even clearer.

The study that I alluded to earlier - which did contain many factual comparisons - led many who otherwise would have been inclined to prefer suburban MD over NoVa, to acknowledge that, on objective grounds, NoVa is now a better place for most to live than MD. See, for example:

Even Montgomery agrees: Life looks brighter in Fairfax

Of course, there are those for whom MD works better, and you're entitled to your own personal opinion. No one can ever take that away from you.

They use loopholes and incentives to not pay any taxes. In the end Virginia deals with the cost of them without getting any income. The people of VA get to deal with out of control sprawl, chaos, and traffic. People move to MD to escape VA and for a better quality of life and simple commute to VA. These people then pay taxes in MD. VA gets nothing while MD reaps all the benefits.

My original question has been answered. This has been a truly enlightening thread. Thanks for everyone who answered with relevant info.

To end VA is not a place but now you know why VA is inferior in quality of life. I recommend you take appropriate actions, although this may ultimately make MD worse.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Yes, businesses in Virginia pay taxes. You have higher personal tax rates in MD to compensate for the smaller number of taxpaying businesses and to fund more generous social spending programs. If you are a recipient of those expenditures, you may prefer Maryland. .

There are certainly people other than the recipients of social spending, who prefer them. There are people who want to take some responsibility for the less fortunate among us - the poor, the elderly, the physically and mentally ill, etc.

There are of course some of us like that in Virginia

Virginia Jewish Advocacy Day 2013 | Jews United for Justice


We might even have a fighting chance at change in Va, but some people will use any method to stop it

Va. Republicans’ redistricting maneuver draws criticism - The Washington Post

but its certainly true that by avoiding such responsibility, an individual jurisdiction can improve its performance on a range of metrics - both by attracting those who want lower taxes, and discouraging those in need of services.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by JEB77

See, for example:

Even Montgomery agrees: Life looks brighter in Fairfax

Of course, there are those for whom MD works better, and you're entitled to your own personal opinion. No one can ever take that away from you.

the key take away from that column is this


"Although it's always best to know the facts, I regret that the competition risks weakening regional solidarity. It's vital for our area to cooperate on issues including transportation, the environment and public safety. "

Too much cooperation might endanger the strategy of using an inter-jurisdiction race to the bottom to gut social service expenditures, however.

Va still won't even accept the federal subsidy for extending Medicaid as part of the Affordable Care Act.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

You compare like with like in this case the appropriate comparison is between PWC and Stafford to PG and Charles mainly because of the reasons you cite. When you make such a comparison PG and Northern Charles fair poorly.

thats true, its more apt than discussing overall underwater rates, say, between MD and NoVa.

But I would still say that there are substantial differences in housing stock age that disadvantage PG.

But surely there has been poor planning in PG - PWC lacks metro rail- PG has several metro rail stations, and has failed to leverage them.

PWC, though it has an area of cheaper, old legacy housing, its smaller than in PG. And PWC has gained recently due to the BRAC relocations.

I would tend to say that all four of those non-favored quarter, highly autocentric jurisdictions, have issues.

Interesting you point out that Northern Charles fairs poorly, though it has the same govt and policies as the rest of Charles. A hint that demographics plays a role?

The future for MoCo is not going to be sitting around wishing the State of Md would adopt the approach to social services and taxes of the Commonwealth (an approach that likely would be different if NoVa had more say) but to better leverage its own strengths. In the future thats going to mean taking better advantage of its metro and commuter rail, with TOD, and strengthening its healthcare and education sectors.

[Viceroy of Lost Umbrellas]

Originally Posted by cry_havoc

They use loopholes and incentives to not pay any taxes. In the end Virginia deals with the cost of them without getting any income. The people of VA get to deal with out of control sprawl, chaos, and traffic. People move to MD to escape VA and for a better quality of life and simple commute to VA. These people then pay taxes in MD. VA gets nothing while MD reaps all the benefits.

Do you have some sort of cite for these assertions? You seem to be making a lot of claims without providing any sort of backup for them.

Assuming arguendo that these firms don't pay taxes or even get tax breaks, the jobs there tend to be taking by Virginia residents and not Maryland residents. Since traffic in the area is so bad, most people try to live on the same side of the bridge as there jobs. Look at the residential growth that has happened in NoVa over the last fifteen to twenty years. When I was a kid, Chantilly was the boonies. Loudoun was mostly farms. It has been completely built up over the last two decades. Has Maryland experienced equivalent growth?