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Should WMATA and MTA team up and make a comprehensive regional transit system between the two cities? For example extending metro rail service to BWI to connect to MTA's Light Rail System. Or even extending Metro Rail service into Downtown Baltimore for direct access to the city's Metro Subway from DC's already developed Metro System. Could this help Baltimore create a more accessible and reliable mass transit system?
Here is what I don't think should happen:
WMATA should not extend the Green line to BWI and Baltimore, given the distances and density aren't really right for heavy rail. I know a lot of people are pointing to the Silver Line (and I agree it probably should not have gone passed IAD), but at least the Silver Line serves Tysons and Reston on the way, two suburban areas that are rapidly urbanizing and densifying. Sure, Tysons is still a giant suburban office park today, but the zoning is in place for a much more urban environment in the future and the job growth is there to likely make that actually happen (there doesn't seem to be as much urbanization/job growth going on in the Greenbelt-BWI stretch).
Here is what I do think should happen:
WMATA should build out the loop line in DC as proposed so that we can take the Blue and Yellow line off of the Green and Orange/Silver. This would allow 2-minute headways on both Green and Blue lines, and four minute headways on Orange and Silver. In fact, I'd like a hybrid of Concept 4 and and Concept 6A of that study. Then, as with 6A, take the Silver Line off the Orange line and run it under Columbia Pike and into the Loop, allowing 2-minute headways on both the Orange and Silver. You'd basically have a system with two minute headways on all lines, at least north of the Huntington/Franconia-Springfield split.
Then I'd like a short Red Line extension to Downtown Gaithersburg, Shady Grove is pretty darn close to there already so might as well make it useful. Big ridership boost for little additional trackage.
Then I want us to beef up MARC and VRE substantially, and join them into one system similar to the RER in Paris with run-through service through the District. So, MARC lines would proceed on down to L'Enfant, Crystal City, Alexandria, etc. and VRE trains would proceed up to Baltimore and Penn Station/Camden Station. Fully electrified, shorter headways, all day/weekend service on all lines, etc. Most important, have the fare system integrated with the Metro. I want to be able to transfer from a MARC or VRE train to Metro and vice versa as if they were just another Metro Line. Same on the Baltimore end. One card, all systems, some sort of similar pricing structure. Make. It. Seamless.
Next, I'd like to dig a short tunnel that brings Amtrak/MARC/VRE DIRECTLY to the BWI airport. No more shuttle nonsense. Just a slight detour off the current station at BWI. Another option here would be if BWI ever needed an expansion, a new shared train station/terminal could be built a bit to the southwest of the current terminal, where the tracks and airport property are somewhat close together.
As crazy as this sounds, I bet for the cost of a Green Line extension to BWI and Baltimore you could get quite a bit of what I just asked for above, and make the whole regional system way more efficient and convenient.
The two systems were designed to be incompatable. Different rail gauges, different electrical systems. Metrorail would have to get the approval of all the jurisdictions that currently make up the system (Do you think any of the Virginia members would vote to extend in that direction?)
Note. They won't be a track connection between these two systems. My point is, if they are going to bring this to the Baltimore area, at least serve the residences if it ever gets built. There's already an incompatible light rail and Virginia already getting an extended transportation as we speak. Incompatibility systems in cities for a long time nyc irt/bmt Paris rubber tires and non rubber tires, Mexico different track gauges. So on.
They can put this train on the highway like they are doing with the silver line to cut cost. And build the line mostly elevated.
I will like to know the closes terminal to the city of Baltimore. I might actually write a letter to President Joe Biden to see if he can allocate funds for this project. Because this will help Baltimore residences.
It don't necessary have to be a current DC line. It can be an entirely new line that have few stops in DC and be like an Express, providing more capacity for that city. While serving Baltimore local needs.
Note. They won't be a track connection between these two systems. My point is, if they are going to bring this to the Baltimore area, at least serve the residences if it ever gets built. There's already an incompatible light rail and Virginia already getting an extended transportation as we speak. Incompatibility systems in cities for a long time nyc irt/bmt Paris rubber tires and non rubber tires, Mexico different track gauges. So on.
They can put this train on the highway like they are doing with the silver line to cut cost. And build the line mostly elevated.
I will like to know the closes terminal to the city of Baltimore. I might actually write a letter to President Joe Biden to see if he can allocate funds for this project. Because this will help Baltimore residences.
It don't necessary have to be a current DC line. It can be an entirely new line that have few stops in DC and be like an Express, providing more capacity for that city. While serving Baltimore local needs.
If the state won't invest in it why would the Federal Gov't? Federal funding is run through the state. the Washington Suburbs have no interest in helping Baltimore. the outer suburbs of both cities are tired of being seen as piggy banks to fund projects for the Metro areas.
Where is VA getting an extended line? the Silver Line? I think you better look into where funding came for that I seem to remember the Funding came from development groups outside the normal METRO funding system. I don't see that happening in Baltimore.
If the state won't invest in it why would the Federal Gov't? Federal funding is run through the state. the Washington Suburbs have no interest in helping Baltimore. the outer suburbs of both cities are tired of being seen as piggy banks to fund projects for the Metro areas.
Where is VA getting an extended line? the Silver Line? I think you better look into where funding came for that I seem to remember the Funding came from development groups outside the normal METRO funding system. I don't see that happening in Baltimore.
The projects being funded by the suburbs (Silver Line extension and VRE improvements) are mostly projects aimed at the suburbs, and aimed at carrying suburban commuters to their jobs closer to the urban core.
So it's a weird qualm the have, at least on the infrastructure front.
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Well, some of the points being made here have since become a bit moot. 7 years ago people were posting in this thread that sitting on the Metro for an hour is "too much" or that's too far out for extending the local "DC" metro. Well now we have the Silver line extended to Ashburn, Virginia. That is 30 miles on the dot from Metro Center, and at least 1hr 20 mins away. BWI airport too is exactly 30 miles from Union Station. Making it more than conceivable as a future Metro terminus one day.
The question remains, realistic to extend Metro service to BWI airport or not? This is a very legitimate question IMO now. I also see in the long, long, long term Metro extending southward to Prince William County which would terminate 30 miles out, and the Orange line I'm certain will continue out to at least Gainesville, but only after the add more core capacity/ connectivity. I think we're past the denial phase, and may see more serious of talks about Metro to BWI, or connecting to the Baltimore suburbs better.
Well, some of the points being made here have since become a bit moot. 7 years ago people were posting in this thread that sitting on the Metro for an hour is "too much" or that's too far out for extending the local "DC" metro. Well now we have the Silver line extended to Ashburn, Virginia. That is 30 miles on the dot from Metro Center, and at least 1hr 20 mins away. BWI airport too is exactly 30 miles from Union Station. Making it more than conceivable as a future Metro terminus one day.
The question remains, realistic to extend Metro service to BWI airport or not? This is a very legitimate question IMO now. I also see in the long, long, long term Metro extending southward to Prince William County which would terminate 30 miles out, and the Orange line I'm certain will continue out to at least Gainesville, but only after the add more core capacity/ connectivity. I think we're past the denial phase, and may see more serious of talks about Metro to BWI, or connecting to the Baltimore suburbs better.
It's still a nonsensical idea because there's nothing between Greenbelt and BWI. It'd cost 25+ billion dollars and accomplish very, very little. The Silver Line is for IAD, sure, but far more importantly it's for Tysons - a submarket that has as many jobs as downtown Baltimore. Unless Laurel 50xs in size, it's still a moronic idea.
If Metro is extended in MD it'd likely be Red Line to Gaithersburg and Germantown since those are significant population and job centers and there's already a heavy rail line in place that'd reduce construction/ROW cost. Even so, it's unlikely to happen in the next 30 years unless transportation priorities shift significantly.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bufflove
It's still a nonsensical idea because there's nothing between Greenbelt and BWI. It'd cost 25+ billion dollars and accomplish very, very little. The Silver Line is for IAD, sure, but far more importantly it's for Tysons - a submarket that has as many jobs as downtown Baltimore. Unless Laurel 50xs in size, it's still a moronic idea.
If Metro is extended in MD it'd likely be Red Line to Gaithersburg and Germantown since those are significant population and job centers and there's already a heavy rail line in place that'd reduce construction/ROW cost. Even so, it's unlikely to happen in the next 30 years unless transportation priorities shift significantly.
Your first sentence is simply not true. There's nonstop suburbia between Greenbelt and BWI, and MARC exists so there's plenty population, that would obviously increase. What needs to happen is more creation of a mini business district in-between. Konterra is an obvious answer, Rt. 1 could become a dense corridor, Maryland City could be redeveloped from strip malls, as well as Ft. Meade, and Arundel Mills existing in between. There are Census tracts today between the end of the Green Line and BWI equaling what you find off the Silver Line if not more dense. I actually think you'd get more immediate Metro ridership (at non-airport stations) on day one of opening on a Green Line extension than Phase 2 of Silver. The Loudoun Gateway station off the SL is surrounded by trees and data centers.
It also wouldn't cost $25 billion unless you're tunneling the entire way, and would be done in phases. I think it's just lack of vision or want to on the MD side to even try to become a multi-nodal set of business districts in suburbia like Northern Virginia.
I'm not saying this is probable, but this should no longer be considered some far fetched pipe dream that's unrealistic.
Last edited by the resident09; 11-22-2022 at 09:59 PM..
Your first sentence is simply not true. There's nonstop suburbia between Greenbelt and BWI
You just repeated me. There's nothing but low density suburbia between Greenbelt and BWI. Metro makes zero sense, especially considering PG already has plenty of underdeveloped stations. Any demand for increased density near transit on that side of the system can already be accomplished via existing infrastructure. Building even more underutilized stations even further out contributes exceptionally little and would be fiscally irresponsible, to say the least.
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