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Well, it takes a heck of a lot more to cause PTSD in an emotionally healthy person than that. If someone gets PTSD from that, they were fragile beforehand and needed therapy, anyway.
I've had to evacuate two burning buildings, and got stuck in a stairwell in one of them because I couldn't get the doors open. Did it remind me of my mortality? Yes. But there was no mental scarring.
That's great for you, but everyone is different and we all respond to situations differently. I know two people who were in separate car accidents decades ago, and the accidents had a profound effect on them. One of them refuses to even get in a car to this day. The other will not ride as a passenger. He will only get in a vehicle if he is the one driving, and it still took him many years to even get to that point. For a long time he would not get in a vehicle at all. I can't judge them and just assume they must have been emotionally fragile and needed therapy before their accidents just because I didn't have the same reaction to being in an accident myself. I'm sure my reactions to other incidents in my life may seem extreme or strange to some people simply because they wouldn't have responded the same way I did. You'd be surprised at what can break a person down. Something that may seem mild or easy enough to get over to you or me may devastate the next person. And it doesn't mean they're emotionally unhealthy, it just means they're human.
I hope they sue. Municipalities need to realize that not fully funding maintenance is expensive too.
Unfortunately, I don't know how you tackle the public opinion problem. The public sentiment after these incidents is unfortunately "why are we paying all of this money for a system where this can happen" instead of "how do we fund a capital maintenance/replacement program so that this doesn't happen".
Yep. You sue and you make WMATA hurt and hurt BAD. After the June 2009 Fort Totten tragedy and now the L'Enfant Plaza disaster its time for those overpaid knuckleheads over by the Building Museum to learn we've had it up to here!
So, I had some good discussion on this, and I thought about it logically without any emotions attached to it, considering if I left when I was suppose to leave, I'd be in that train.
1. Third rail. How is it structured in DC? Do you know? I don't. If they could of quickly shut down the third rail, allowing the conductor to open the door, this could of been avoided. The conductor will open the doors, letting the smoke out, and everyone in the train could of walked out to the stairs where the L'Effant plaza was. But, maybe we don't have a system where the third rail can't be shut down sectionally. If we don't, we should. Imagine yourself stuck on top of Potamac river when this happened? There is simply no way to escape but to dive into the below freezing water below.
2. Why did it take so long for the rescue to arrive? 40 minutes hardly seem like a standard time considering the amount of distance that the train traveled out of L'Effant plaza. Why didn't WMATA have their own rescue squad? Why don't we have that? Why do we have to rely on normal (but amazing) firefighters for this?
3. What sort of plan for such disastrous event was advertised by WMATA for public awareness? They should have constant communication about what can go wrong. And when it did go wrong, as we have seen, did all of the passengers knew what to do in that specific situation? Did they actually realize that the reason why the conductor kept the door shut was not to fry people on the third rail? This disgusts me the most because I know it can be done better as someone with 12 years in marketing, advertising, engineering, and communications.
4. Who arrived at the scene? Was it just the fire fighters, always sacrificing themselves to save people, or other agencies emergency response team? We live in DC filled with few dozen agencies and people that has the sole job of preventing and resolving such situations. There are people who does this for a living. Where were they? Why didn't the government take this seriously? What was the chain of communication that got relayed that made this such a mundane and not serious work for the federal government? Did they not understand who were in those trains? I know now SES or ES, or S1/S2 since they get their own cars for this very specific reasons, but did they consider that some significantly involved people were in these trains, specifically DoD, and other agencies (such as DoE Nuclear)? Also, if they weren't there, why was this taken so simply, and not cautiously in a post 9-11 world?
A person died, and a lot of people got hurt because of this. What do you think if something like this but worst happens? Do you want some other dates when a lot of American's die so we can remember them after 9-11? And this time, it will be mostly contractors and government workers, some who are about to retire, or some who are important, and critical member of the government function. And general citizens that swore to make sure the government is functioning properly.
There are a lot more questions I want to ask, but I'd stop there.
Number 3 is the one that worries me the most, because there is no other solution or public communications/knowledge based awareness in case terrorist strike, as it has happened very recently in other countries to their metro/train stations. People got scared, terrified, and died, because they just didn't expecting this sort of thing on their way to home. They were just thinking about dinner, that chocolate treat after the dinner, and maybe even seeing their newborn child when they got home.
I imagine myself stuck in a smoked filled train station, and I imagine what those people who were trapped in the World Trade Towers felt like (over-exaggerated), but if it happens again, and it's due to a terrorist act, then what? This isn't some newly discovered notion, but it has happened before in many other countries.
Oh wait, let me google what I can do to escape this sort of thing on my phone. OH... That's right, I have to internet. - Yes, go ahead and put a wifi on the train. I have more, but that's what I'll post here for now.
Do you really think two or three officers standing near the metro entrance is going to stop the terrorist that's been planning to attack, kill, and willing to be blown up to little pieces? Half of the time, they're busy answering tourists questions to cute girls to notice that a package has gone through.
This needs to be addressed quickly, before anything horrific happens, because this is the scariest scenario you could possibly imagine for the US government.
For a lawsuit to prevail, youd need to prove four elements: 1) Metro had a duty to follow some set standard of care in this situation; 2) that a breach of that duty occurred; 3) the breach of duty was the proximate cause of 4) an injury/damage(s).
What was the cause of the smoke and was it the result of negligence to follow some set standard of care that would have prevented the fatality and injuries? I don't know, but malfunctioning parts aren't always within Metro's control. However, I do recall that after the deadly crash in 2009, Metro and the company that gives them equipment admitted legal responsibility and settled lawsuits with families of people who were killed.
...and now they want us to pay more (while cutting back the # of trains!) for the privilege of riding a rail system that is always delayed and could quite possibly kill you:
This is horrible. I lived in Chicago where the public train system had its fair share of derailments and a major fire recently that occurred right next to a track. I can't recall any deaths caused by the accidents (although every year a handful of people die by getting hit, but more often than not it's due to suicide or a disoriented individual on the tracks). Also, the emergency response was appropriate from both the city's responders and the CTA staff. I think the biggest complaints from riders were how much of a mess rerouting all the rush hour travelers onto the buses was...but this is a much smaller issue than someone dying.
I'm still really shocked hearing this seemingly avoidable tragedy happened on the metro here. The prelim report that was released mentioned there was no radio signal available in the station that day that was needed for emergency communication, and that the test for a working frequency was supposed to be conducted regularly for this exact kind of safety precaution.
Accidents happen, but there shouldn't have been a death or people being trapped for so long. I agree with commenters about the general public being too litigious, but when I read this sort of hypothetical question I ask myself whether the situation was part of the risk of everyday living and not likely avoidable (meaning a lawsuit would be unjustified) or whether it could have been avoided had the responsible organization been doing its job better (in that case punishment and damages are justified).
I mean...WMATA can't even maintain a working radio frequency down there? And they want to raise already sky-high fairs? Maybe I'm just spoiled from being used to a $2.25 flat fare.
And theyre raising the fares again. What are they doing with the money they made from the previous increases? Those ugly, low, narrow, smaller buses with fewer seats and less passenger space? Oh. Speaker systems that don't work?
I've always feared that an emergency would happen but passengers wouldnt be alerted because the speakers on trains dont work on too many of the cars.
I blame the conductor of the train in the station that abandoned his train and thus the train in the tunnel couldn't back up.
The train could not back up because another one was on the way, according to the information below. Understandable, but the next logical step would be to cut power and have everyone exit the cars, no? Why did that take 40 minutes? And the report also mentions the emergency crew could not access the last train through the emergency door. WTF? They had to go to the side because the main one wouldn't open? I also think this was poor response by the conductor, but clearly he/she is not the single one at fault.
1. Third rail. How is it structured in DC? Do you know? I don't. If they could of quickly shut down the third rail, allowing the conductor to open the door, this could of been avoided. The conductor will open the doors, letting the smoke out, and everyone in the train could of walked out to the stairs where the L'Effant plaza was.
I'd also like to know more about this. I think the report I read mentioned that the emergency crew got the word of power being cut to the third rail, but then they noticed other trains riding by when they shouldn't have been? I wasn't clear on that part.
In Chicago and I assume NYC, if there's a situation on the tracks you can cut the power at a station or two and the rest of the trains that are behind the incident just have to sit stuck in the tunnel or at a station until they get a green light to proceed after the problem has been cleared. Power remains on the track ahead of the accident, so all the cars ahead of it can keep traveling toward the end of the line. I think the possible exception would be a fire issue, where full power would be cut.
This car was not far into the tunnel when it had to stop, right? I'm confused why it was a 40 minute ordeal to cut the power in that section and get people out of the cars.
Last edited by glenmorangie; 01-21-2015 at 08:32 PM..
If YOU were on that train and ended up in the hospital for smoke related illness, would you sue METRO if your health insurance paid for your treatment?
Many of my friends say that they would not sue because the money paid out in lawsuits will just end costing all of us in the end through higher taxes and fares. They say it is just part of the risk we take in day to day living. Others disagree.
If you did sue how much is fair if you are recovered without any lasting illness?
Please take my poll, especially if you take Metro to get to work or school.
I used to take the train to work back when you could smoke!!! Imagine a car full of smokers with windows up. So what they got one single smokey ride
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