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In the couple to few years I've been on this forum -- which to the best of my understanding was created to help people learn, ask questions, & share about "moving, re-location, and general city info. across the U.S." (<-site description), I was just thinking it interesting how people will often describe wanting to leave a place due to things like weather, job, people, drug elements, crime, homelessness factor, plus many other social issues...and they hope to find a new place with less of these things they are desiring to get away from.
For myself, I'm not specifically trying to *escape* any one particular thing in my own current city (well, maybe the HEAT of summer to some degree, ...my husband would likely say TRAFFIC, if he were to pick *just one thing*) in our quest to find another place to live....but these are not sole reasons to pick up and move our whole lives, not for us anyway. For us it's more about wanting to try a new adventure that includes...in a nutshell, a deeper connection to nature/TREES/an affordable rural lifestyle. Nor are we trying to relocate to a new place to try turn that new place into something we had here, as some seem to frequently accuse newcomers of trying to do... to ruin things.
Places we're interested in moving to have their own issues of say, homelessness. I would feel ridiculous to point this out or comment on about it at some new-place-forum when I just heard on the news yesterday that my own current city is now ranked 4th in the nation for it's homeless population. And drugs. Yep, the place we want to move to has plenty of drug issues, too. But again, I already live in a border city rife with drug issues, I could name two known-drug dealers on my own street right now. Politics? I rarely share my political persuasion on forums like this because like religion, there will always be contrarians, and discussing it does nothing but throw gasoline on fires. I let my vote do the talking, and my walk do the talking as far as spiritual beliefs & application.
So does such a place as Utopia really exist? Of course not, it's about what we're each, with our own measuring sticks, willing to tolerate, acknowledge, adapt to. There most certainly ALWAYS will be some trade-off, or at least some of the same issues EVERYwhere? I could ask though, What, in your opinion is the closest you've ever gotten to that elusive Utopia? BUT...response will always be in the eye of the beholder....
Some people live in the midst of a drug-infested town and are completely oblivious to it....I've seen this many times. They may see homeless folks and be the one to hand them cash, think of themselves as helping them, while others see them as a blight on their community, shun them like the plague, consider their presence devaluing their properties. For many, any issue, if it's not *in their face* and they don't have to deal with it in some way, it doesn't exist. Doesn't mean it isn't there though!
I guess I've just found it so interesting how so disparate opinions can be about a "same place", on so many town forums. What motivates some to relocate, and then you hear the followup. Funny how the same problems follow some wherever they go....even in the the most opposite of places/circumstances......
I guess as much as I hope to find answers about some places, all I've really found is an education on how different measuring sticks can be. Not that I don't appreciate many varying points of view (I DO!)....but it just underscores that the only way you'll truly know if a place is a good fit for you is to go and see it/experience it for yourself. And even then, be willing to acknowledge there is no Utopia, places are ever-changing, and you have to be willing to accept your part in that change....active or non-participatory.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Lots of "Utopia" in Oregon and Northern CA
for low traffic / quiet / peaceful / in the midst of nature decent summer climate (but wet winter climate)
I appreciate:
Being in a COUNTY with no traffic lights!
16 miles from a GREAT international airport (EZ escape from wet winters)
<30 min to 20+ colleges (events + EDU + resources for research + music options)
Income tax free state (Domicile)
Sales tax free state 5 min away for shopping (no need for 'accumulating' in retirement)
NO barking neighbor dogs (this is a HUGE plus during retirement)
Wonderful view (also important in retirement, when you finally have a chance to stay home and enjoy it. )
mtns / hiking / fishing / hunting out the back door
Snow / beach / volcano within 1 hr
HUGE river with hundreds of miles recreation 7 min away
sustainable / gardening. What CAN'T you grow with 200+ days drizzle / yr, and 280 days with some cloud cover? (I do miss my Colorado / WY sunshine where I was sentenced to the first 28 yrs of life
Voting - non-issue. I am in one of 36 counties that don't matter. 3 counties control the entire vote in WA and OR. I don't protest... but I have never 'won' / got my desired vote in the last 35+ yrs in WA. It kills my business expenses / regulations / jobs for my ex-employees... and greatly increases my taxes. But it must make the 'majority' very fat and happy!
So... when seeking Utopia... Do NOT be a job creator, just live off the system. and be VERY disillusioned about how your taxes are spent. Public schools (50% of my $17,200 / yr property taxes) Let the dead dog lie. Don't disrupt the system, remain disillusioned! (but very happy in nirvana!)
I think Oregon would work just fine (just not for me).
I'm curious too about how people who live in the same area can describe a city it totally different terms. The town I plan on moving to there are many reports on City Data of it having a huge problem with both panhandling and homeless people Downtown. Uh, the downtown is small, the city only has 40,000 people total so I'm not sure how it can be that bad. Still others describe the downtown area as charming and friendly. I think both descriptors are in the eye of the beholder
So does such a place as Utopia really exist? Of course not, it's about what we're each, with our own measuring sticks, willing to tolerate, acknowledge, adapt to. There most certainly ALWAYS will be some trade-off, or at least some of the same issues EVERYwhere? I could ask though, What, in your opinion is the closest you've ever gotten to that elusive Utopia? BUT...response will always be in the eye of the beholder....
Some people live in the midst of a drug-infested town and are completely oblivious to it....I've seen this many times. They may see homeless folks and be the one to hand them cash, think of themselves as helping them, while others see them as a blight on their community, shun them like the plague, consider their presence devaluing their properties. For many, any issue, if it's not *in their face* and they don't have to deal with it in some way, it doesn't exist. Doesn't mean it isn't there though!
I guess I've just found it so interesting how so disparate opinions can be about a "same place", on so many town forums. What motivates some to relocate, and then you hear the followup. Funny how the same problems follow some wherever they go....even in the the most opposite of places/circumstances......
I guess as much as I hope to find answers about some places, all I've really found is an education on how different measuring sticks can be. Not that I don't appreciate many varying points of view (I DO!)....but it just underscores that the only way you'll truly know if a place is a good fit for you is to go and see it/experience it for yourself. And even then, be willing to acknowledge there is no Utopia, places are ever-changing, and you have to be willing to accept your part in that change....active or non-participatory.
This is a multi-faceted post, and thus can have many different replies...kind of the point, though, isn't it? First, I've found your point is true for me about acknowledging there is no utopia, that there are pros and cons everywhere you go. I used to be so black and white, but as I've aged, I've had to come to terms with accepting a balance, that everything I want in a place to live, a place to work, in a partner is not going to be found in one place. I keep saying...if I could take the xxx of husband #1 and combine that with the xxx of husband #2, oh, would I ever have the man of my dreams! hehehehee Happy to report that husband #2 is looking more utopian as I get grayer...you know, less black and white.
The one thing that is hard, though, is not being able to go back. Change is inevitable, and my city of 20 years ago is no more, so as much as I'd like to go back, I can't be 20 years younger again - because I think a lot of the yearning for how "things used to be" may be more about how life used to be back when we were that age. It may not be so much "Seattle in the 90s" as much as it may be "Seattle when I was 25." Yes, sure, traffic wasn't so bad, it wasn't as rainy/hot/humid/crowded...., but when I look back to my old stomping grounds, I don't remember the things I'm looking at now for relocation as much, like traffic and job opportunities and weather. I remember relationships, great moments at jobs, trips/activities with people, my kid growing up. It's the experiences I remember, mostly with people.
Recently I read that when trying to make a decision for a major life change, it's imperative to focus on the experiences you want, not actual things. I find that profound - I'm working to apply this as I try to find a place to move because I did find my 99% utopia, but now must move from it and have absolutely no idea where to go that even remotely compares to my little slice of almost perfection.
It's all about $$ and nothing else. If you got money you can be in a place with very nice weather, no drug dealers and junkies, nice nature close, no property crime, may be nice and tall fence around the gated community: it's that simple. Then, you can find Utopia in a few places.
Aside from having to have close neighbors due to price, this area of the Pacific Northwest is about as good as it gets for me.
Enjoy the weather, except for the long, hot, dry drought year summers. Fall is my favorite season and it's pretty much that here 9 months of the year. Mild winters with little to no salt usage to rust cars. Incredible hiking experiences abound. It's a solid tax haven in your earning years. Very low crime rates compared to back east.
About the only place I liked better was living in Frankfurt, Germany when growing up. Similar beautiful landscape and mild climate. First class public transit and of course the Autobahn. Rich history and castles among the mountains. But living there as a private citizen expat would be very expensive.
Simple. What is utopia or its closest match in real life to one person is not utopia to another person. That is why there widely varying reactions to the same conditions in one place.
My own decision to move away from one much-ballyhooed utopia back to the one that I consider "home" is, in fact, a mix of pushes and pulls in both places. The reasons are much too complex to answer with "We left because we didn't like the [whatever]" and "We missed our grandchildren [or whatever]." A public forum is not a place to discuss for pages all the factors that went into such a decision. And I also dislike waving political flags of whatever persuasion in public, because what repels or attracts me doesn't necessarily apply to someone else.
This is a multi-faceted post, and thus can have many different replies...kind of the point, though, isn't it? First, I've found your point is true for me about acknowledging there is no utopia, that there are pros and cons everywhere you go. I used to be so black and white, but as I've aged, I've had to come to terms with accepting a balance, that everything I want in a place to live, a place to work, in a partner is not going to be found in one place. I keep saying...if I could take the xxx of husband #1 and combine that with the xxx of husband #2, oh, would I ever have the man of my dreams! hehehehee Happy to report that husband #2 is looking more utopian as I get grayer...you know, less black and white.
The one thing that is hard, though, is not being able to go back. Change is inevitable, and my city of 20 years ago is no more, so as much as I'd like to go back, I can't be 20 years younger again - because I think a lot of the yearning for how "things used to be" may be more about how life used to be back when we were that age. It may not be so much "Seattle in the 90s" as much as it may be "Seattle when I was 25." Yes, sure, traffic wasn't so bad, it wasn't as rainy/hot/humid/crowded...., but when I look back to my old stomping grounds, I don't remember the things I'm looking at now for relocation as much, like traffic and job opportunities and weather. I remember relationships, great moments at jobs, trips/activities with people, my kid growing up. It's the experiences I remember, mostly with people.
Recently I read that when trying to make a decision for a major life change, it's imperative to focus on the experiences you want, not actual things. I find that profound - I'm working to apply this as I try to find a place to move because I did find my 99% utopia, but now must move from it and have absolutely no idea where to go that even remotely compares to my little slice of almost perfection.
I hear ya....especially about the age-related decision-making......
I'm reminded of a gal on this forum who sometime back was responding on a thread I started. (You there, nice gal? Sorry I forgot your name.) She was a home caregiver and talked about a couple she knew/cared for who had moved to WA to fulfill their dream to live a rural lifestyle in the forest, have land, even their own private airstrip, and it was happening for them! They had a great house/property, ......but just a very few short years after this dream-come-true, the husband became ill to the point that living the dream wasn't so dreamy anymore. She became his caregiver and it worked out well in that they had a this large house for her to have her own living quarters, etc., in-home care rather than having to go to a facility. But they were now unable to really enjoy all that they had moved up there for.
Point being.....we make plans and choices but never know what's right around the corner that can put the kybosh on our lovely dreams and expectations. You can't live constantly expecting the worst, either. But it's also hard NOT to consider......how will my Grand Plans work when I'm say, 85 years old, possibly a widow by then, etc. Will what seems like Utopia now, be so Utopian under those circumstances? Hard to not consider all scenarios.
That's the part that makes me wish we could keep our current house (very elderly-friendly neighborhood) and afford to buy anew up there in WA! LOL! Heck, cuz everyone can afford to keep two homes, right? :::snicker::: I'll keep buying those lottery tickets......
It's all about $$ and nothing else. If you got money you can be in a place with very nice weather, no drug dealers and junkies, nice nature close, no property crime, may be nice and tall fence around the gated community: it's that simple. Then, you can find Utopia in a few places.
You're probably right about it being all about money.
But again....what is nice weather to some, is pure hell for others. Plenty of people love and keep coming to San Diego for instance, think it's the most temperate climate in all of the USA (which it probably USED TO be)....but climate change has made summers a half year long now and blisteringly hot.
I don't think I've heard of many towns left anymore that are untouched by drugs and related property crime, and that aren't Timbuctoo. Crimeless perhaps, but in a place most do not think of as their Dream Town.
Too, a lot of desirable places have such a high cost of living, that you have to work so hard to make ends meet that you never have time to get out and enjoy the stuff that makes it supposedly so desirable...heh heh
So yeah.......money. Money buys seclusion, security, and drug-sniffing guard dogs....or more than one house so you can get the best of more than one world.
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(but wet winter climate
)
)
and be VERY disillusioned about how your taxes are spent. Public schools (50% of my $17,200 / yr property taxes) Let the dead dog lie. Don't disrupt the system, remain disillusioned! (but very happy in nirvana!
)
First, I've found your point is true for me about acknowledging there is no utopia, that there are pros and cons everywhere you go. I used to be so black and white, but as I've aged, I've had to come to terms with accepting a balance, that everything I want in a place to live, a place to work, in a partner is not going to be found in one place. I keep saying...if I could take the xxx of husband #1 and combine that with the xxx of husband #2, oh, would I ever have the man of my dreams! hehehehee Happy to report that husband #2 is looking more utopian as I get grayer...you know, less black and white. 
