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Not sure that all of that is correct – especially in coastal Georgia.
In the coldest month (January), coastal Georgia is just as warm - if not slightly warmer, both in average winter lows and monthly mean temperatures than Houston, Austin, or San Antonio.
According to their respective NWS data…. The average/normal January low in Houston is 42 F…. Austin 41 F…..and San Antonio 40 F. The normal January low in Brunswick, GA is 42 F. The same seems true for average monthly temps: In January monthly mean temps in Brunswick, GA are 52. 3 F…..warmer than Austin, TX (51.5 F)…. and San Antonio (51. 8 F). Even Houston (52.7 F) and New Orleans (53 F) are only slight warmer (by 0.4 to 0.7 F) than Brunswick, GA.
Dallas is in a different ballpark. The average January low in Dallas is 35 F….not even close to Charleston 38 F, Savannah 39 F….or other areas of coastal Georgia/southern South Carolina which are near 40 F.
I noticed that your link for Houston was tailored to the Houston area in general, an expansive metro that stretches from the immediate gulf of Galveston all the way to inland areas well away from the sea. Using your own NWS source, I found that Bush IAH, the Houston airport in the more northern, inland parts of the metro well away from water, had an average January low of 42.5F, warmer than Brunswick, which is directly on the coast. Seeing how far inland that part of Houston was, I picked a location closer to the sea (and to downtown), Hobby, and found that the January average was 45F, 3 degrees warmer than Brunswick. Even cooler, more inland suburbs of Houston, like Sugar Land, have a Jan average low of 42.7F, warmer than Brunswick as well. The average monthly mean in Jan for Hobby was 53.9F.
Maybe Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio are a little bit cooler than coastal areas of South Carolina, and Georgia. All I was getting at there is that is that those coastal locales in Georgia and southern South Carolina are not warmer than the coastal areas of the Gulf Coast, especially in Louisiana and Texas, as the low temps in those coastal Atlantic areas are close to the low temps of the inland Texas cities like Austin and San Antonio. Even Dallas near the continent interior(therefore, being much more subject to extremes) is only 5F away from having January lows as warm as coastal Georgia, and southern South Carolina.
One thing that is true about the Atlantic South - the area, according to the records, seems to have more yearly sunshine than the Gulf South. For example, Charleston has 2800 hrs of sunshine a year, while Houston has around 2600 (This is the inland Bush Airport). Why is this the case?
An for the record, TX, and Louisiana are not farther inland, especially since they have miles of coastline on the Gulf of Mexico. The title of this thread implied a battle between coastal cities in the southern United States (Corpus, Houston, New Orleans, Biloxi, Tampa, Savannah, etc) and inland cities in those same respective states (Dallas, Little Rock, Jackson, Atlanta, Columbia, etc.)
All in all, New Orleans and Houston both have warmer weather, on average, than Charleston and Savannah.
It really isn't that much warmer. There is a Houston NOAA site that sits halfway between downtown Houston and Galveston, not out in the colder western burbs. The avg Jan high/low there is 62.8/43.9. Charleston has a NOAA station in the battery area which is a long peninsula. The avg Jan high/low is 57.4f/42.9F. It is a known fact that Charleston AFB (official airport NOAA site) is a cold hole compared to all the areas around Charleston. Same for Savannah. Hardly that much difference except on the avg high which is a bit warmer in Houston given the further southerly location.
But how do you explain Galveston having more ice days than the SE Atlantic Coast from Sullivans Island down thru Tybee, Sapelo, etc. including inland Savannah airport? I believe all of Texas locations have higher standard deviations on winter averages than the Atlantic Coast. There is nothing to block that cold air coming right to Texas with no mountains between the Arctic and Texas. Southern Appalachians in NC and TN have peaks over 6,500 ft. That has to modify air coming from the northwest headed to the Carolina and Georgia coast.
Dallas is no where in the same league as Charleston and Savannah in mildness of winter and what can be grown. I doubt you would have any success at all with citrus there, let alone most palm trees except for the hardiest. Dallas averages 2.3 ice days a year which is 11.5 times more than Charleston Airport. Dallas gets more snow than Charleston on average. People in Dallas struggle to keep a CIDP alive, yet they are all over Charleston (and very old). The averages may not be that far apart, but the standard deviation has to be more. Dallas is zone 8a, and Charleston is 9a. Just go on the subtropical forum and notice the difference in what can be grown. No one on that forum would suggest that Dallas is as mild in winter as Savannah or Charleston. Both Savannah and Charleston have queen palms growing, no such luck in Dallas.
An for the record, TX, and Louisiana are not farther inland, especially since they have miles of coastline on the Gulf of Mexico. The title of this thread implied a battle between coastal cities in the southern United States (Corpus, Houston, New Orleans, Biloxi, Tampa, Savannah, etc) and inland cities in those same respective states (Dallas, Little Rock, Jackson, Atlanta, Columbia, etc.)
Charleston and Savannah are quite a bit higher in latitude than Houston and New Orleans. Charleston is at the same latitude as Shreveport. Why is the average high/low in Shreveport very close to Charleston averages, yet can grow no where near what Charleston can in term of subtropicals? I believe this is due to a higher standard deviation in temps in winter (inland and no mountains).
It really isn't that much warmer. There is a Houston NOAA site that sits halfway between downtown Houston and Galveston, not out in the colder western burbs. The avg Jan high/low there is 62.8/43.9. Charleston has a NOAA station in the battery area which is a long peninsula. The avg Jan high/low is 57.4f/42.9F. It is a known fact that Charleston AFB (official airport NOAA site) is a cold hole compared to all the areas around Charleston. Same for Savannah. Hardly that much difference except on the avg high which is a bit warmer in Houston given the further southerly location.
But how do you explain Galveston having more ice days than the SE Atlantic Coast from Sullivans Island down thru Tybee, Sapelo, etc. including inland Savannah airport?I believeall of Texas locations have higher standard deviations on winter averages than the Atlantic Coast. There is nothing to block that cold air coming right to Texas with no mountains between the Arctic and Texas. Southern Appalachians in NC and TN have peaks over 6,500 ft. That has to modify air coming from the northwest headed to the Carolina and Georgia coast.
Dallas is no where in the same league as Charleston and Savannah in mildness of winter and what can be grown. I doubt you would have any success at all with citrus there, let alone most palm trees except for the hardiest. Dallas averages 2.3 ice days a year which is 11.5 times more than Charleston Airport. Dallas gets more snow than Charleston on average. People in Dallas struggle to keep a CIDP alive, yet they are all over Charleston (and very old). The averages may not be that far apart, but the standard deviation has to be more. Dallas is zone 8a, and Charleston is 9a. Just go on the subtropical forum and notice the difference in what can be grown. No one on that forum would suggest that Dallas is as mild in winter as Savannah or Charleston. Both Savannah and Charleston have queen palms growing, no such luck in Dallas.
Well, as I've stated in a previous post, Houston's Hobby Airport has a Jan Average high and low of 62.8F and 45F respectively. And keep in mind it isn't near the immediate coastline yet. Whereas you have to be right on the coast to enjoy such warmth in the coastal Atlantic states. Look at the USDA maps, and you'll see zone 9 only exists in slivers in coastal Georgia and South Carolina, whereas in Texas and Louisiana, the same zone is found in broad areas in much more inland locations, despite the apparent disadvantage of no mountains. Those "cold hole" airports of Savannah and Charleston are relatively near to the business districts (and the coast), compared to Houston's two airports, both of which have warmer averages.
I don't know where you got ice days of Galveston, but I do know that Savannah averages over 20 days with frost and freeze, while Galveston averages 2 days of frost and freeze. That is 4 less days than Daytona Beach, FL, and the two locations have about the same averages. I guess those Appalachians aren't tall enough to do the job. Even in Houston Hobby, a distance from the coastline, there is an average of around 9 days of freeze per year. South Carolina/Georgia have queen palms, CIDPs, Sabal Palmettos, and Washingtonias? Well, Houston/Galveston has all that and more, with even Royal Palms showing success in Galveston, and even in Houston south of I-10, where they are 20-30ft. Do you want me to tell you about the sugar cane industry the Houston Area had before the crop land was bought up? Oh, and the sugar cane climate extends into Louisiana as well.
Again, I only brought up Dallas to show how warm the Gulf States are, where even their interiors have about the same average winter lows as the coastal areas of the Atlantic South.
Charleston and Savannah are quite a bit higher in latitude than Houston and New Orleans. Charleston is at the same latitude as Shreveport. Why is the average high/low in Shreveport very close to Charleston averages, yet can grow no where near what Charleston can in term of subtropicals? I believe this is due to a higher standard deviation in temps in winter (inland and no mountains).
Well, duh.
Anyways, in Georgia and South Carolina, you need to practically hug the coastline to have any success in growing subtropical plants, while you can do that with ease in locations in Texas and Louisiana that are much more relatively inland. Go to New Orleans, and you'll see subtropical plants that you will never see in the coastal Atlantic South.
I noticed that your link for Houston was tailored to the Houston area in general, an expansive metro that stretches from the immediate gulf of Galveston all the way to inland areas well away from the sea. Using your own NWS source, I found that Bush IAH, the Houston airport in the more northern, inland parts of the metro well away from water, had an average January low of 42.5F, warmer than Brunswick, which is directly on the coast. Seeing how far inland that part of Houston was, I picked a location closer to the sea (and to downtown), Hobby, and found that the January average was 45F, 3 degrees warmer than Brunswick. Even cooler, more inland suburbs of Houston, like Sugar Land, have a Jan average low of 42.7F, warmer than Brunswick as well. The average monthly mean in Jan for Hobby was 53.9F.
Maybe Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio are a little bit cooler than coastal areas of South Carolina, and Georgia. All I was getting at there is that is that those coastal locales in Georgia and southern South Carolina are not warmer than the coastal areas of the Gulf Coast, especially in Louisiana and Texas, as the low temps in those coastal Atlantic areas are close to the low temps of the inland Texas cities like Austin and San Antonio. Even Dallas near the continent interior(therefore, being much more subject to extremes) is only 5F away from having January lows as warm as coastal Georgia, and southern South Carolina.
One thing that is true about the Atlantic South - the area, according to the records, seems to have more yearly sunshine than the Gulf South. For example, Charleston has 2800 hrs of sunshine a year, while Houston has around 2600 (This is the inland Bush Airport). Why is this the case?
I do see some of your points…. but I think your trying to split the atom here in a climatic sense (lol).
I agree, if we take stations right on the coast - it’s likely warmer along the Texas Gulf Coast than along the South Carolina or Georgia coast – as they are further south a bit. However, the differences really are small. Can one really tell the difference between 1 to 3 F? If you lived in Brunswick, GA (42 F) and I lived near Bush ICA (42.5 F), would either one of us really notice any difference in sensible weather if we switched? The same can really be said for the January temp between Hobby (53.9 F) and Brunswick, GA (52.3 F).
I also agree that the Louisiana coast (New Orleans) is a bit warmer than the coastal areas of South Carolina and Georgia. According to the data (and even my own experiences traveling in the Gulf/South Atlantic)…one has to reach St. Augustine, Florida before the winter lows/mean temps are warmer than anywhere along the north Gulf Coast (of course coastal places from Corpus Christi south to McAllen are still warmer than coastal places in northern Florida until you reach Melbourne).
Now where I greatly disagree (and I think this is Tom77’s point above)…is that all places in Texas and Louisiana (including coastal areas) see winter conditions that places like Savannah, Charleston, Brunswick, ...etc would never see. Despite being a bit further south – places along the Texas and Louisiana Gulf Coast see more continental winter conditions then places like south/coastal Georgia or even coastal South Carolina see:
Look at the records for extreme snowfall events: The record snowfall in Charleston, SC is 6.6 inches (12/22/1989)….in Savannah is 3.6 inches (12/8/1989)….in Brunswick, GA 3.0 inches (2/15/1895).
Yet in Galveston the record snowfall is 14 inches (2/14/1895) and in New Orleans the record snowfall is 14.4 inches (1/15/1909)…and Dallas 11.2 inches (2/10/2010).
I guess my point is that while I agree that coastal areas of TX and LA might be warmer in terms of average lows/mean temps than coastal areas of Georgia and southern South Carolina...the difference is very small. Of more interest it seems - the Gulf coast and inland areas of the Gulf states can see more wintery weather than coastal GA/SC in terms of snow and cold, despite being further south than those areas.
In terms of what grows where (palms/plants)….I’ve said it before, microclimates play a much bigger role than a few degrees difference between cities. I would not take the fact that one plant is seen in one area and not another as one of that much importance when their mean temps are not all that far apart. One other note – in terms of history, sugarcane was once grown in the Low Country of South Georgia and South Carolina. Remember, Georgia (not Louisiana) was the original sugarcane state in the USA. Back in 1825 Georgia gave Louisiana the seeds to plant:
Galveston has about the same January mean temp as St. Augustine with a higher average low. Coastal Texas/Louisiana is not colder than GA/SC...look at the extreme minimum temps and record lows. Galveston had 13 consecutive winters that didn't drop below 30F.
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, but I do know that Savannah averages over 20 days with frost and freeze, while Galveston averages 2 days of frost and freeze. That is 4 less days than Daytona Beach, FL, and the two locations have about the same averages. I guess those Appalachians aren't tall enough to do the job. Even in Houston Hobby, a distance from the coastline, there is an average of around 9 days of freeze per year. South Carolina/Georgia have queen palms, CIDPs, Sabal Palmettos, and Washingtonias? Well, Houston/Galveston has all that and more, with even Royal Palms showing success in Galveston, and even in Houston south of I-10, where they are 20-30ft. Do you want me to tell you about the sugar cane industry the Houston Area had before the crop land was bought up? Oh, and the sugar cane climate extends into Louisiana as well.
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