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I don't accept it, just based on lapse rates and other data from the region. For example, Death Valley's normal high tops at 115, Needles's normal high tops at 111 and Phoenix's top normal high is 108. So for Needles' record of 125 being 14 above their top normal high, and Phoenix's record of 122 is 14 above their top normal high of 108, it would make much more sense for Death Valley's 129 from 2013 (also 14 above their top normal high) to be the record, rather than 134 which is 19 above the top normal high
You may not accept it, but those two organizations do.
You can't really put a set number as to how much above the average temperature should be. It can vary quite a bit, especially at Death Valley due to the fact that it is surrounded mountains and is located below sea level. BTW, most sources list the average July maximum temp at 116 degrees.
The average maximum temperature at Death Valley (Furnace Creek Ranch) in June is 110 degrees yet the record for that month is 129 degrees... 19 degrees above average.
The average maximum temp for Oct. is 93 degrees and the record for Oct. is 113 degrees, 20 degrees above average.
And the average maximum temp for February is 73 degrees and the record for that month is 98 degrees... 25 degrees more than average.
Comparing minimum temps, the average for July is 88 degrees but a few years ago the minimum was a hot 107 degrees.
You may not accept it, but those two organizations do.
In fact many climatologists and weather historians are entirely skeptical of the 134 degrees, and it's plausible that the record could be revoked if further scrutiny is placed on the issue.
He gives that 134F reading a "validity score" of 2/10.
Quote:
134° (56.7°) July 10, 1913 Greenland Ranch, Death Valley, California, USA
SOURCE: Monthly Weather Review, June 1915, U.S. Dept. Of Agriculture.
NOTES: This site reported several other 130°F+ readings during this heat episode (130° on the 12th and 131° on the 13th) but never again after this July of 1913 event. Many in depth articles have been written about the validity of the measurement. See:
-Monthly Weather Review June 1915 pp. 278-280 -The climate of Death Valley by Steven Roof and Charlie Callagan, Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, Dec 2003. -Weatherwise magazine, 134°, by David Ludlum, June 1963 pp. 116-117 -Death Valley’s 134°F Record Temperature Study by William T. Reid, August 29, 2013.
This record has been scrutinized perhaps more than any other in the United States. I don't have much more to add to the debate aside from my belief it is most likely not a valid reading when one looks at all the evidence (see Mr. Reid’s in depth discussion noted above). Normally when Death Valley observes its hottest temperatures they occur during region-wide heat waves. On July 10, 1913 the next highest temperatures recorded in southern California (aside from Greenland Ranch) were just 119° at Heber and 118° at Mammoth Tank. Las Vegas was just 112°. I give a 2-point validity to this only because it still deserves a thorough scientific investigation by an official organization in order to put the record to bed once and for all.
The instrument shelter at Greenland Ranch in 1926. (Photo from Bancroft Library Collection, Univ. of California, Berkeley).
The COOP form for Greenland Ranch in August 1924 shows some very suspicious readings with 16 nights above 100° including a 12-day consecutive stretch of such, including two at 110°! The modern (post 1934) record for Death Valley has never had more than 3 consecutive nights above 100° and a hottest night ever in modern records was 107° on July 12, 2012.. P.S. A low temperature of 41.6°C (106.9°F) was measured at Hoseyniyeh, Iran for the night of July 21-22. This is probably the 2nd highest night time temperature ever measured on Earth (if one discounts the erratic measurements from Death Valley in 1924).
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,623,335 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
You may not accept it, but those two organizations do.
You can't really put a set number as to how much above the average temperature should be. It can vary quite a bit, especially at Death Valley due to the fact that it is surrounded mountains and is located below sea level. BTW, most sources list the average July maximum temp at 116 degrees.
The average maximum temperature at Death Valley (Furnace Creek Ranch) in June is 110 degrees yet the record for that month is 129 degrees... 19 degrees above average.
The average maximum temp for Oct. is 93 degrees and the record for Oct. is 113 degrees, 20 degrees above average.
And the average maximum temp for February is 73 degrees and the record for that month is 98 degrees... 25 degrees more than average.
Comparing minimum temps, the average for July is 88 degrees but a few years the minimum was a hot 107 degrees.
I'm talking the highest the all time record is from.the highest normal high, even if they don't fall on the same date. And nice cherrypicking, Phoenix has 20°+ positive deviations in the shoulder seasons as well. No where in this region sees the same high positive deviations in the summer though, the air is too stable this time of year in the desert SW.
Christopher Burt has a right to his opinion. But he can't be 100% sure.
I still think it's not only possible but probable that Death Valley has reached if not 134, then at least 130 degrees.
I have been following the summer temps at Death Valley and other desert areas such as Needles since 1981 because the Los Angeles times prints the temps of those cities since at least then.
Here is why I don't agree that the temperatures in nearby areas don't necessarily validate or invalidate another locations' temps...
A few weeks ago, Needles tied its all-time record temperature at 125 degrees; Death Valley was "only" 126.
However, there are other dates in which Death Valley is well above or only a little higher than the temp at Needles. For example:
Date------------- Death Valley-- Needles
June 28, 2006---- 121----------- 110
July 19, 2006---- 122----------- 114
July 13, 2006---- 119----------- 117
July 14, 2006---- 122----------- 119
July 21, 2006---- 123----------- 120
July 27, 2006---- 122----------- 106
As can be seen, Death Valley can be only a little hotter than Needles or a lot hotter. It just depends in certain factors.
I'm talking the highest the all time record is from.the highest normal high, even if they don't fall on the same date. And nice cherrypicking, Phoenix has 20°+ positive deviations in the shoulder seasons as well. No where in this region sees the same high positive deviations in the summer though, the air is too stable this time of year in the desert SW.
Not really really cherry-picking, just posting some relevant data and information, like the June figures.
Here is more interesting info...
City---------------- Average July Max.-- Record July Max.
Thermal, CA------- 107 degrees F------ 126 degrees F
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,623,335 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
Not really really cherry-picking, just posting some relevant data and information, like the June figures.
Here is more interesting info...
City---------------- Average July Max.-- Record July Max.
Thermal, CA------- 107 degrees F------ 126 degrees F
Indio, CA---------- 107----------------- 125
Buckeye, AZ------ 108------------------ 125
Parker, AZ-------- 109------------------ 127
Tacna, AZ-------- 107------------------- 126
Parker and Tacna aren't official NWS stations, while Blythe and Yuma respectively are. And I wouldn't put too much stock in the Buckeye readings either. As well as Indio, you only listed one official NWS station there, KTRM, Thermal. And they get those possible high deviations due to occasional wind reversal, which the rest of the region outside the Coachella Valley doesn't see
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