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View Poll Results: Best climate to start a civilization. Cfa or Csa
Csa (Meditteranean Climate) 38 59.38%
Cfa (Humid Subtropical Climate) 26 40.63%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-18-2017, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Bologna, Italy
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Just choose Rome which is like a Cfa/Csa hybrid

Many things happened there.
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Old 12-18-2017, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Paris, ÃŽle-de-France, France
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Civilization= Csa
Industrialization= Cfb
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Old 12-18-2017, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficialMCC View Post
Well the Chinese were able to build a thriving civilization thousands and thousands of years ago with hot and VERY humid summers.
But there were many episodes of drought/disease when thousands of Chinese were killed by the elements. Even the same thing happens in India nowadays. If the monsoon is a few weeks late, people start dying.

The same thing doesn't happen in Med climates. I think the reason is that the winters are cool so there's not much evaporation and the summer dryness is "baked in". But in India, if the monsoon is delayed, that's into May/June which then can bring scorching temps, I think like 120 prior to the monsoon kicking in. Without the monsoon, India is desert.
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:26 PM
 
Location: South Padre Island, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
But there were many episodes of drought/disease when thousands of Chinese were killed by the elements. Even the same thing happens in India nowadays. If the monsoon is a few weeks late, people start dying.

The same thing doesn't happen in Med climates. I think the reason is that the winters are cool so there's not much evaporation and the summer dryness is "baked in". But in India, if the monsoon is delayed, that's into May/June which then can bring scorching temps, I think like 120 prior to the monsoon kicking in. Without the monsoon, India is desert.
Haven't you checked the news on California lately?
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
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Originally Posted by Texyn View Post
Haven't you checked the news on California lately?
That's a good point. Ironically, the reason for the fires was because of a very wet winter last year. All that rain in the winter allowed a wildflower explosion and grasses and plants grew very tall. So this fire season, there was just so much fuel available.

This is a La Nina year which means southern California is missing out on the winter rains, but Seattle is getting a lot more winter rain. SF is in the middle, they saw some good pounding rains in November but December has been a mixed bag.

Last year was El Nino and all of California, including the deserts, saw beneficial rains.

People aren't dying by the thousands and the temps are just in the 70's and 80's so warm but still quite mild.

But the important point is fires =/= drought.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:37 AM
 
Location: South Padre Island, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
That's a good point. Ironically, the reason for the fires was because of a very wet winter last year. All that rain in the winter allowed a wildflower explosion and grasses and plants grew very tall. So this fire season, there was just so much fuel available.

This is a La Nina year which means southern California is missing out on the winter rains, but Seattle is getting a lot more winter rain. SF is in the middle, they saw some good pounding rains in November but December has been a mixed bag.

Last year was El Nino and all of California, including the deserts, saw beneficial rains.

But the important point is fires =/= drought.
There wouldn't be fire to such scale (and origin) if it weren't so dry.

Quote:
People aren't dying by the thousands and the temps are just in the 70's and 80's so warm but still quite mild.
Of course they wouldn't, CA is in a developed country.
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Old 12-23-2017, 05:10 PM
 
Location: PHX -> ATL
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Homo sapiens came out of an area in Western Ethiopia that is known for having a Mediterranean climate.

Many of our first civilizations, came out of dry climates in the Middle East.

With that being said, we are an adaptable species, and for the most part we can make civilization happen anywhere. Humid or dry.
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
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Originally Posted by Texyn View Post
There wouldn't be fire to such scale (and origin) if it weren't so dry.
Whether the rain is in the winter, spring, summer, or fall, if there are pronounced dry and wet seasons then there will be fires in the dry season or usually if the wet season doesn't come at the normal time.

The only exception is in constantly wet, dry, or cold climates. In too cold climates there isn't much fuel due to a short growing season. In a really wet climate (tropical or maritime) it never dries out enough for fires. In a really dry desert climate, there is no vegetation to catch fire.

Also dry vegetation is usually viewed negatively, but it is a fuel source for many animals including cows. Dry hay can be stored and used during the dry season. In fact, sometimes mold can form in the rotting dry landscape and exceed the mold counts during the wet season. That mold is food for many plants and animals both underground and above ground. Those dry landscapes in California are still alive! Then after the fires the soil is wonderful and the fire pops a lot of seeds which germinate in the next wet season.

The problem in California is they simply do not have enough fire breaks. They need a grid like pattern of fire breaks. When visiting California I was amazed at how much rotting debris was available as fuel. I'm talking 20 feet tall piles in the mountains of pine needles around some sequoias.

My community in Austin got fire-wise after some fires, I was surprised that not many communities in California were fire-wise. You would think it would be natural there.
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Old 12-24-2017, 11:28 PM
 
Location: South Padre Island, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Also dry vegetation is usually viewed negatively, but it is a fuel source for many animals including cows. Dry hay can be stored and used during the dry season. In fact, sometimes mold can form in the rotting dry landscape and exceed the mold counts during the wet season. That mold is food for many plants and animals both underground and above ground. Those dry landscapes in California are still alive! Then after the fires the soil is wonderful and the fire pops a lot of seeds which germinate in the next wet season.

The problem in California is they simply do not have enough fire breaks. They need a grid like pattern of fire breaks. When visiting California I was amazed at how much rotting debris was available as fuel. I'm talking 20 feet tall piles in the mountains of pine needles around some sequoias.

My community in Austin got fire-wise after some fires, I was surprised that not many communities in California were fire-wise. You would think it would be natural there.
I mentioned origin because fire's relation to drought depends on the origin. If vegetation is just burning up because of winds blowing, then things are certainly dry; on the other hand, a fire generated from lightning strikes can happen just about anywhere, regardless of moisture.
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Old 12-25-2017, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texyn View Post
I mentioned origin because fire's relation to drought depends on the origin. If vegetation is just burning up because of winds blowing, then things are certainly dry; on the other hand, a fire generated from lightning strikes can happen just about anywhere, regardless of moisture.
Even in this case, things just didn't ignite because of winds blowing. Something lit the fire, they still don't know what, but I suspect a cigarette, campfire, or an overheated car alongside the road. I remember seeing large grass fires in Texas and California due to on overheated car that caught fire when they pulled it to the side of the road. I think they were saying that people were parking their cars over leaves and the leaves were catching fire. Not a wise move.

These are things that education with a "fire wise" slant will bring.
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