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Now you've gone from overthinking things to just not thinking at all.
That's just how the classification works. The fact that there are only 4 B subdivisions compared to 9 each in C and D climates (and the 2 categories the subdivisions can go into only being BW and BS) speaks for itself that the dryness is the main feature, as does the name of the group of arid and semi-arid climates.
Edit: sorry for being snarky, but that's at least twice now you've said LAX and Lethbridge are not the same type which is exactly the same thing I'm saying.
Context is important! I'm saying that they are not the same type in the sense of the climate transitions behind their otherwise analogous lack of rain despite both being semi arid climates towards the colder half of their respective mechanism-appropriate isotherms, hence the use of different isotherms being needed.
Perhaps we should agree to disagree/move on, because it doesn't look to me as if we are getting anywhere. I don't mean any disrespect by saying this and I apologize if it's not polite to say so, but I've certainly got better things to do than not be able to reach a common consensus after a page's worth of comments and multiple explanations either way.
Context is important! I'm saying that they are not the same type in the sense of the climate transitions behind their otherwise analogous lack of rain despite both being semi arid climates towards the colder half of their respective mechanism-appropriate isotherms, hence the use of different isotherms being needed.
YSK that Koppen did not create the different isotherms you refer to. This was added post hoc by others when the deficiencies of the Koppen system were identified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Can't think of username
Perhaps we should agree to disagree/move on, because it doesn't look to me as if we are getting anywhere. I don't mean any disrespect by saying this and I apologize if it's not polite to say so, but I've certainly got better things to do than not be able to reach a common consensus after a page's worth of comments and multiple explanations either way.
We're actually not that far from each other. We both agree they are different climate types; where we disagree is how this relates to Koppen. Clearly another flaw has been exposed in his system as illustrated above.
YSK that Koppen did not create the different isotherms you refer to. This was added post hoc by others when the deficiencies of the Koppen system were identified.
We're actually not that far from each other. We both agree they are different climate types; where we disagree is how this relates to Koppen. Clearly another flaw has been exposed in his system as illustrated above.
Oh, they are the modified Koppen isotherms! I see what you are saying, and with it I can agree because those modifications undeniably help what deficiencies there are as is.
I suppose it is the same vein as the more well known modification to >0C for continental and temperate climates: unlike their original forms of 18C annual mean/>-3C, they are actually adherent to the cause and effect like the parts that didn't need modification.
Exact start and end dates will vary depending on where in the state you are located, but the overall period from mid March to late May/early June is definitely Florida's most pronounced with respect to rain-scarcity and associated downstream effects (i.e. brushfires, drought, etc). The prolonged dryness of winter has taken its toll, only to be combined with the continued dryness and warming temps (hence, greater increase in dessication) associated with the warming season.
That said, looking at averages in places like Naples, FL, the winters and springs don't seem all that dry and dessicating in/of themselves. So I do think that the spring season drought and fire tendencies in Florida are maximized both by the sandy soils in much of the state (which drain quite fast in expense of plant uptake), as well as the lack of extraordinarily wet season (look at places in India, Myanmmar, etc to see what I mean).
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Quite true – the wet season in Florida starts in the deep southern part of the peninsula and works its way north, at least in most years. Florida seems to have the opposite rainfall pattern as LA/SOCAL, where the wetter season is winter, not summer.
However, not sure I agree that winter and springs are not dry in Florida:
One of the things that I noticed when looking at seasonal rainfall in Florida – the monthly or long-term averages for rainfall scarcely do justice to the reality seasonal precipitation in Florida. Naples is a good example, while Naples averages of 1.2 to 1.4 inches (.4 cm) or rainfall in the driest months (dry put not very dry)… many times there are months in the dry season (or entire dry seasons) that have less than half that amount of rainfall. I pasted in monthly rainfall totals for the last 10 years from public info site NWS Naples, you can see that many times less than 0.50 inches of rainfall occurs in Naples in many winter months. Look at Dec (2014) and Jan (2015), only 0.35 inches of rainfall occurred for two months. Look at the winter 0f 2017/2018….in the three-month winter dry season Naples only received 1.69 inches of rainfall. This at a location near 27 latitudes with a fairly strong winter sun angle (a great amount of evaporation) and daily average highs of 75 F, and sandy soil as you noted.
Many times, when I was in southwest and east-central Florida and despite a lot of palms and green plants, parts of the landscape actually did seem very dry and desiccated. Just like SOCAL/LA, much of the landscape in Florida is no longer in its natural state. When many people think of Florida, they think of lush palms/vegetation, but in its natural state, much of Florida is scrub subtropical savanna and seasonally dry brush.
Quite true – the wet season in Florida starts in the deep southern part of the peninsula and works its way north, at least in most years. Florida seems to have the opposite rainfall pattern as LA/SOCAL, where the wetter season is winter, not summer.
However, not sure I agree that winter and springs are not dry in Florida:
One of the things that I noticed when looking at seasonal rainfall in Florida – the monthly or long-term averages for rainfall scarcely do justice to the reality seasonal precipitation in Florida. Naples is a good example, while Naples averages of 1.2 to 1.4 inches (.4 cm) or rainfall in the driest months (dry put not very dry)… many times there are months in the dry season (or entire dry seasons) that have less than half that amount of rainfall. I pasted in monthly rainfall totals for the last 10 years from public info site NWS Naples, you can see that many times less than 0.50 inches of rainfall occurs in Naples in many winter months. Look at Dec (2014) and Jan (2015), only 0.35 inches of rainfall occurred for two months. Look at the winter 0f 2017/2018….in the three-month winter dry season Naples only received 1.69 inches of rainfall. This at a location near 27 latitudes with a fairly strong winter sun angle (a great amount of evaporation) and daily average highs of 75 F, and sandy soil as you noted.
Many times, when I was in southwest and east-central Florida and despite a lot of palms and green plants, parts of the landscape actually did seem very dry and desiccated. Just like SOCAL/LA, much of the landscape in Florida is no longer in its natural state. When many people think of Florida, they think of lush palms/vegetation, but in its natural state, much of Florida is scrub subtropical savanna and seasonally dry brush.
Yes Florida is definitely rather scrubby, sandy, and bushy when the dry season gets rather intense. You've perfectly described the Dry Tortugas and Archbold Station.
I wonder how the overall evapotranspiration compares in a Key West winter and a Los Angeles summer? Key West is warmer then with December-March average 22.6C compared to 20.7C June-September in Los Angeles (shoutout to the premise of this thread about which one is actually warmer), but the precipitation is 179mm compared to 45mm.
I don't know how to calculate evapotranspiration from a few months instead of a year (like the handy Koppen formula), so if anyone can check that would be handy. My hunch is that Los Angeles would have more, being 1.9C colder doesn't seem enough to counteract nearly 4X less precipitation?
However, not sure I agree that winter and springs are not dry in Florida...
Many times, when I was in southwest and east-central Florida and despite a lot of palms and green plants, parts of the landscape actually did seem very dry and desiccated. Just like SOCAL/LA, much of the landscape in Florida is no longer in its natural state. When many people think of Florida, they think of lush palms/vegetation, but in its natural state, much of Florida is scrub subtropical savanna and seasonally dry brush.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Can't think of username
Yes Florida is definitely rather scrubby, sandy, and bushy when the dry season gets rather intense. You've perfectly described the Dry Tortugas and Archbold Station.
True. But what I was trying to emphasize with my point is that a stronger wet season can be enough to "make up" for that dry season, and still effectively produce lush, palmy moist/rainforest vegetation. And with Florida not being so hot during the dry season as the deeper tropics, any moisture deficit would theoretically be easier to "overcome."
Most likely, the process would have to do with more retained groundwater in the dry seasons of rainier wet seasons. The tropical monsoon (am) and savannah (aw/as) threshold formula might have been an attempt to work this out: however, it definitely does not account for temperatures (and resultant evaporation). Not to mention that the sandy Floridian soils would definitely be a challenge regardless.
Last but not least, here is a fun fact. The Florida Keys are actually rather dry in July for being in Florida: and it's not just Key West that has July notably drier than all the other wet season months but the Dry Tortugas National Park is actually around half as wet with 56mm of precipitation.
Such dryness is most likely related to their position out in the ocean: just as in the more well known examples of Miami Beach and South Padre Island where precipitation is reduced due to that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_To...l_Park#Climate
The dryness of distant island areas like Key West and Tortugas compared to mainland Florida could also relate to their position relative to Bermuda High moisture flux. A similar factor is described for the southern Bahamas, how those islands tend to be more arid compared to those further north/closer to Florida: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Town
For the last time, South Carolina is irrelevant! I literally was never thinking about it at all when I made the thread, this thread is only meant to have some amusement at how wrong my previous thinking that Los Angeles was warmer than South Florida is.
I'm not saying this again because it seems to be going over some people's heads no matter how much I do.
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), but the precipitation is 179mm compared to 45mm.
