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Admittedly a few Koppen-like aspects (tropical and tundra, ice cap isotherms; as well as -3 C for 'cold' winters), but mine differs drastically in the fundamentals--namely, the addition of 20 C monthly mean isotherms to indicate 'warm' weather.
Subtropical was made in such a way that many Chinese climates in the subtropics can easily qualify for that label, despite cold winters, as the warmer part of the year is very long and extreme compared to the short blink-and-you'll-miss-em winters.
In the southeast US, Raleigh at 35.78 N only just qualifies for subtropical, with its 5th > 20 C month at 20.4 C and so it's rather borderline. This aligns perfectly with the textbook range of the subtropics ending at the 35th parallel. In Australia however, not even Wagga Wagga (35.16 S) comes close to meeting this threshold and one must venture as far north as Parkes (33.14 S) to meet the lower boundary of the subtropical threshold. Of course, coastal climates will meet this threshold more easily.
Last edited by WesterlyWX; 06-12-2023 at 12:46 AM..
Temperate is simple to the point of being meaningless - one cool temperate climate can have snow on the ground for 3 months and grow a few shrubby trees, while another cool temperate climate can produce bananas and pineapples, and have never seen snow ... just a name and some guess work.
I’m assuming you are keeping the same rainfall patter zones? Mediterranean vs Humid vs arid etc.
I like your thought process here, but I think you would need more fine tuning for the temperate zones, feels weird having Portland OR, Sacramento and Boston all in one group (warm temperate).
I think using the 22C threshold was good to separate the hot and not hot summer places, that way Portland and Sacramento stay separate, and 0C for separating the cold and mild winters, that way Boston would be considered continental.
I’m assuming you are keeping the same rainfall patter zones? Mediterranean vs Humid vs arid etc.
I like your thought process here, but I think you would need more fine tuning for the temperate zones, feels weird having Portland OR, Sacramento and Boston all in one group (warm temperate).
I think using the 22C threshold was good to separate the hot and not hot summer places, that way Portland and Sacramento stay separate, and 0C for separating the cold and mild winters, that way Boston would be considered continental.
But just my two cents.
My rainfall classifications (very simple):
Mediterranean-- same as Koppen
'Humid'-- same as Koppen, but its name changed to 'Uniform' instead
Arid/Semi Arid-- now this one is changed dramatically in my system, namely the complete elimination of the 'aridity' marker for any month with means under 10 C (i.e., anything colder than growing season threshold). Only > 10 C months will be considered for aridity indices. Aridity doesn't exist when there is no lushness to begin with. No more evaporation rate nonsense. Which means that mediterranean climates are more arid than summer peak climates given equal rainfall. Portland, Oregon is thus more arid than Narrabri, NSW as its winter rainfall is now nullified.
0 C is too mild, and Boston 'winters' are an insult to real cold winter climates like Fargo. -3 C is much more sensible and does a good job at separating frozen winters from freeze-thaw winters, which is the only thing that really matters. This is the original Koppen isotherm before it got vandalised.
Under this San Diego Is warm Temperate not subtropical. Some areas in Morrocco also don't meet the subtropical threshold according this.
I'm also not sure how I feel about Auckland and Tauranga being in the same category as Inverness. With the current Temperate oceanic range, due to the fact it is already so broad we know that there is a large variability within this category. However by attempting to break this category into smaller segments to better represent the differences it hasn't really done so at all. For example now Auckland and Melbourne are put into a different category despite being more similar to each other than Auckland is to Inverness or London so I'm not sure it has achieved it's purpose
The Subtropical standard here really does shut out large parts of Southern Europe especially Portugal. Also parts of Morocco, Southern California etc. I'd see San Diego as much more subtropical than Atlanta anyday.
Fine tuning a climate classification is very hard however. Perhaps if certain cities are within a threshold then they may be allowed to be called either category. For example Auckland could be referred to as Both Warm Temperate or Cold Temperate based on a threshold of one month just missing the temperature mark by 0.5°C? It would be up to each person to call it whichever they wish if it meets this threshold. It would mean San Diego could be also categorized as Subtropical or Warm Temperate. I think we have to realize that while yes there needs to be a line with each category, if one city literally dances close to the line then perhaps this is the threshold that allows it to able to step into another category
Under this San Diego Is warm Temperate not subtropical. Some areas in Morrocco also don't meet the subtropical threshold according this.
I'm also not sure how I feel about Auckland and Tauranga being in the same category as Inverness. With the current Temperate oceanic range, due to the fact it is already so broad we know that there is a large variability within this category. However by attempting to break this category into smaller segments to better represent the differences it hasn't really done so at all. For example now Auckland and Melbourne are put into a different category despite being more similar to each other than Auckland is to Inverness or London so I'm not sure it has achieved it's purpose
The Subtropical standard here really does shut out large parts of Southern Europe especially Portugal. Also parts of Morocco, Southern California etc. I'd see San Diego as much more subtropical than Atlanta anyday.
Fine tuning a climate classification is very hard however. Perhaps if certain cities are within a threshold then they may be allowed to be called either category. For example Auckland could be referred to as Both Warm Temperate or Cold Temperate based on a threshold of one month just missing the temperature mark by 0.5°C? It would be up to each person to call it whichever they wish if it meets this threshold. It would mean San Diego could be also categorized as Subtropical or Warm Temperate. I think we have to realize that while yes there needs to be a line with each category, if one city literally dances close to the line then perhaps this is the threshold that allows it to able to step into another category
This system puts Auckland and Tauranga in the same category as Stockholm - I suspect this system is actually just taking the mickey.
This system puts Auckland and Tauranga in the same category as Stockholm - I suspect this system is actually just taking the mickey.
As I said-- it's a SIMPLE climate classification with broad categories just like Koppen's, except mine makes a lot more sense.
Is Auckland and Stockholm being in the same category, really any worse than Brisbane and Boston being in the same category?! I'd say mine is a lot more sensible, as Auckland and Stockholm both have a pronounced lack of warmth; whereas Brisbane and Boston have nothing in common whatsoever (Brisbane has tons of warmth, whereas Boston has next to no warmth).
Under this San Diego Is warm Temperate not subtropical. Some areas in Morrocco also don't meet the subtropical threshold according this.
I'm also not sure how I feel about Auckland and Tauranga being in the same category as Inverness. With the current Temperate oceanic range, due to the fact it is already so broad we know that there is a large variability within this category. However by attempting to break this category into smaller segments to better represent the differences it hasn't really done so at all. For example now Auckland and Melbourne are put into a different category despite being more similar to each other than Auckland is to Inverness or London so I'm not sure it has achieved it's purpose
The Subtropical standard here really does shut out large parts of Southern Europe especially Portugal. Also parts of Morocco, Southern California etc. I'd see San Diego as much more subtropical than Atlanta anyday.
Fine tuning a climate classification is very hard however. Perhaps if certain cities are within a threshold then they may be allowed to be called either category. For example Auckland could be referred to as Both Warm Temperate or Cold Temperate based on a threshold of one month just missing the temperature mark by 0.5°C? It would be up to each person to call it whichever they wish if it meets this threshold. It would mean San Diego could be also categorized as Subtropical or Warm Temperate. I think we have to realize that while yes there needs to be a line with each category, if one city literally dances close to the line then perhaps this is the threshold that allows it to able to step into another category
San Diego and indeed coastal CA are localised fog holes, so yea. Don't expect me to fine tune my system just to account for these fog holes that take up less than 0.1% of the Earth's area. They are the exception, not the rule.
Perhaps I should explain my system's fundamentals-- notice the TORRID ZONE, TEMPERATE ZONE markers? Those are the fundamental markers, which means that Auckland and Melbourne are indeed in the same climate zone but with different characteristics; Melbourne having more warmth due to its somewhat inland location; and Auckland missing out on this warmth due to its heavy marine influence. Thus, 'warm' and 'cool' temperate only indicate the presence of warmth and nothing more. Both Auckland and Inverness share this lack of warmth, though of course to a lesser degree in the former. It's called a range-- Koppen's is even wider, so I don't think this particular criticism is warranted. I should've put this as a note in the OP.
Last edited by WesterlyWX; 06-12-2023 at 05:44 PM..
As I said-- it's a SIMPLE climate classification with broad categories just like Koppen's, except mine makes a lot more sense.
Is Auckland and Stockholm being in the same category, really any worse than Brisbane and Boston being in the same category?! I'd say mine is a lot more sensible, as Auckland and Stockholm both have a pronounced lack of warmth; whereas Brisbane and Boston have nothing in common whatsoever (Brisbane has tons of warmth, whereas Boston has next to no warmth).
No, but the idea would be to eliminate such disparity altogether - a qualitative description of climate dynamics is really all that's needed. Broad numerical parameters just complicate and make a mockery of climate groups.... and are for the lazy who don't want to track down a climates' stats.
Concentrating on a particular seasons' warmth/cold can't be shown to have value, unless it relates to environment - and your system appears to pay no heed to environment, so summer is no more important than winter.... illogical grouping.
I find the 0 C border better in marking the difference between continental and temperate than -3. With -3, you end up with a climate like Hakodate, with an annual mean of 9C and an average of 3 metres of snow per year, classified as warm temperate.
I would definitely call Hakodate warm-summer continental. Otherwise it would fall into the same category as somewhere like Whangarei, which seems off to me.
I do agree with Joe90 though, these categorization systems always have pitfalls. It's easier to qualitatively describe climates, and that way you don't end up with something like a climate suddenly becoming steppe because it got slightly more rain in a warm-season month.
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