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I can't believe this complaining. You have train service right around the corner and it's not good enough?
I have driven from Knoxville to Spartanburg to ride to New England, to Columbia to visit FLA, WV to visit DC, etc. I'll be happy when/if trains ever come to Bristol. Meanwhile we have the Megabus and that is kind of nice. It will drop you off right outside Union Station in DC.
You do realize the complaining is over 4 years old? I think they've probably figured out by now Amtrak is not coming to Asheville any time soon.
Four years is not really that long for getting it on track considering all of the complications that were mentioned. The people have voted in favor of this service and are now just trying to figure out how to best execute it . This all takes time and should not be dismissed because it seems like too long to you. Give it another 8 to 12 years to get everything in order first.
First off, I was referring to the creeksitter mentioning all the complaining. It was the complaining that is four years old.
Second, It takes more than time. It takes money. Whether people want it or not, if it can not even come close to breaking even, it is not going to happen. We could vote unanimously that we want rail service here, and it would not make one bit of difference in the equation.
I was going to stay out of the nuts and bolts. But here goes.
In numbers this April, Amtrak runs 40 routes. They turn a buck on four of them, and they are all in the northeast corridor. Those make money because they are incredibly convenient, mostly for business travelers. Unlike air service, Amtrak drops people off in the heart of Manhattan. There is good reason he NE corridor routes make money, but the funny thing is, per passenger they don't make a lot of money (in 2007 Amtrak made less than $5 per passenger on those routes).
Aside from those four, they lose varying amounts of money per passenger largely related to the length of the trip. For example, again in 2007 they lost over $250 per person on coast to coast routes. They just finished paring back routes that were big money losers that they did not see any sort of necessity in from a transportation standpoint. They can not add another.
From a practical transportation standpoint, Asheville has sufficient air travel options, is readily available by automobile and by bus. Rail service would create excess capacity. At best adding rail service would struggle to gain ridership. At worst, it may draw enough to drag on of the other modes (most likely air) into the red, as well. If that happens, the airlines will adjust (fewer flights) and the rail service gets abandoned, leaving us with fewer options.
Someone four years ago said that the rails already exist. Those are freight rails owned by Norfolk Southern. First, Amtrak would have to lease trackage rights, they aren't going to come for free. Second, they are laid out to the specification of freight locomotives and trains, where slowing dramatically because of relatively sharp turns, grades, or general track conditions is not desirable, but common. Those things are major impacts to passenger service. For example, when a freight train hits a significant grade (1.5% is a substantial limiting grade) the company has the option of adding helpers to push on the back. That is not an option for passenger trains because it is not exactly zero-risk. Whatever power is on the front of the passenger train has to carry the load. Grades mean more power is needed, meaning more expense.
Freight locomotives top out at about 75mph, and the ones coming into and out of Asheville probably do not get close to that. What that means is even if the other things could be overcome, the service will be slow.
I don't even think there is a business model for commuter rail service to and from Asheville. There would simply not be enough ridership available to make it worthwhile.
Look, I am a bit of a train buff. I have 24 years of experience in the aviation side, but I understand how railroads make money (and why airlines struggle to do so). As much as I'd love to see passenger service on these rails, I also understand the realities. I also understand that as much as I love the idea, it would not even generally be an option for me in my travels.
You do realize the complaining is over 4 years old? I think they've probably figured out by now Amtrak is not coming to Asheville any time soon.
Well, maybe not, but then again, maybe. I still hear the Asheville seculation and now more talk has been about an Asheville to Charleston train via the presently OOS 9Out of Service) Saluda Grade. I'll believe that when I see it -- and maybe not then, really . The rest of your post just above this one is accurate, although I'm guessing in the hey day of passenger service, the ran trains through the Loops.
I really hate I missed the 2-8-0 #630 up that way, but I did catch it in Spencer the week before. If they ever run the #611 out of Asheville I'll certainly come up for that.
Well, maybe not, but then again, maybe. I still hear the Asheville seculation and now more talk has been about an Asheville to Charleston train via the presently OOS 9Out of Service) Saluda Grade. I'll believe that when I see it -- and maybe not then, really . The rest of your post just above this one is accurate, although I'm guessing in the hey day of passenger service, the ran trains through the Loops.
I really hate I missed the 2-8-0 #630 up that way, but I did catch it in Spencer the week before. If they ever run the #611 out of Asheville I'll certainly come up for that.
Steam engines were great (some still are). When they were working hard, they sounded almost human with the huffing and puffing. Diesels are impressive up close (try the Wayside in Biltmore Village when the trains pass), but they don't evoke the same response in people as steams. Diesels are unmistakeably machines, steam sort of had a personality.
The Saluda Grade? Yikes. That is nearly a 5% climb/descent. NS has not run service there in probably ten years, although they still own it and have not officially abandoned it. I think they maintain it in case they ever need it, but the motive power needed to generate the power to climb it or put drag on to keep a reasonable speed on the downward trek would be prohibitive, to say the least!
Well, maybe not, but then again, maybe. I still hear the Asheville seculation and now more talk has been about an Asheville to Charleston train via the presently OOS 9Out of Service) Saluda Grade. I'll believe that when I see it -- and maybe not then, really . The rest of your post just above this one is accurate, although I'm guessing in the hey day of passenger service, the ran trains through the Loops.
I really hate I missed the 2-8-0 #630 up that way, but I did catch it in Spencer the week before. If they ever run the #611 out of Asheville I'll certainly come up for that.
Don't hold your breath for any passenger trains from Asheville to the coast. Cost and elevation prohibitive. If you need a train fix, take the Rocky Mountain Express out through Lake Louise and Banff from Chicago.
They used to run passenger trains up and down Saluda. I actually might not have given any credence about Saluda reopening if 1.) NS didn't start running steam train excursions again and2.) NS didn't paint 20 locomotives in ancestor company paint, both of which happened in the last two years. I don't know if there will ever be passenger service out of Asheville or trains running Saluda again, but one thing I have learned recently is that you never say never.
They used to run passenger trains up and down Saluda. I actually might not have given any credence about Saluda reopening if 1.) NS didn't start running steam train excursions again and2.) NS didn't paint 20 locomotives in ancestor company paint, both of which happened in the last two years. I don't know if there will ever be passenger service out of Asheville or trains running Saluda again, but one thing I have learned recently is that you never say never.
NS painting locomotives in livery of legacy railroads (railroads they acquired) is a coincidence, in response to Union Pacific doing the same thing a few years earlier. UP painted a series of new SD-70 ACe locomotives in what it termed the "Heritage Scheme." They took the schemes of the legacy railroads, updated them, and painted one locomotive in each. It was a PR success, particularly in regions served by one of the "fallen flags." It also spurred sales of model locomotives carrying the Heritage Schemes, something UP gets a royalty on (or did when they started, I don't know their current licensing policy).
NS then followed suit. I do not think NS charges a licensing fee to companies that produce models of their prototypes, so it was strictly a PR and "feel good" tip of the cap to their heritage.
I do not think CSX nor BNSF have or will do the same.
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