Scott Walker officially running for President on Monday (Kenosha, Mequon: 2014, home)

[erasure]

Originally Posted by timberline742

How is it anything but? Most places prosper with better educated populations. Most people believe being well educated is a virtue. Indeed, corporations and start ups, the ones that create and provide high paying jobs, locate in areas with highly educated workforces.

Yes, there were widespread abuses. Which is why the regulations were implemented in the first place. Please look at the history of workplace protections in the Nation and in Wisconsin.

Reducing local control is a good thing? I like having local control as we're closer to our politicians at the local level. I like corporations having to internalize the negative externalities of their processes in order to gain economic efficiency. Without that, then we the people and the government are subsidizing private companies at the expense of the people and the environment. Energy development where ever and whenever, no matter who or what it hurts, is a good thing? Lets put a nuclear reactor next to your house then.

Minnesota has a similar climate and is doing far better.

It isn't too broad a term. It is having scientists use science as a basis for regulation of the environment (along with a truly independent board), instead of the Governor who couldn't even finish college and I'm sure has quite a bit less knowledge on scientific and environmental issues manage the regulatory environment.


Fiscal discipline is a good thing. He has not been engaging in fiscal discipline. He's hurt the economic outlook of the state, without gaining anything of benefit to the State. He has engaged in cuts to promote the fiscal interests to private donors, while hurting the economic outlook of the state. That is both irresponsible and reckless.

I don't doubt it, but even if he didn't, the buck stops with him.

Now the people can give a case for what he has done well to help the people, the environment, and the fiscal outlook of the State. We've yet to receive that.

I am sorry, but all these arguments going back and forth "how this can be a good thing, when it's a bad thing,"
- "Oh no, it's a definitely a good thing" regarding the same subjects, sound like people who argue about these subjects live in two different dimensions.
When you envision the society that you want to live in, as the one built from the bottom up, with strong community ties, the one that values "comfort zone" for all its members more than it values exceptional wealth as a sign of one's achievement, then you'll have your own priorities. You'll want to spend on education, you'll want the protection of worker's rights, you'll want regulations, you'll want local control, you'll want environmental protection.
But if your whole idea of a desirable society is based on mighty "I, ME, MINE," then obviously you'll approach things in an opposite manner. I want cheap energy to run my computer ( I don't care where it comes from,) I want a way to make more money ( the more the better,) so I don't care if I can squeeze these additional profits at expense of someone else's misery. After all, if I can figure out how to make it work, I am deserving; with money I make, I can take command of even more people and I can make even more profits. It's all about individuality you see, and I want this society to function in a manner that protects and reinforces my privileges.

So if deep down we believe in two different philosophies, then obviously the ways we look at the same issues (such as education, labor laws, environmental protection and the rest) are going to be quite the opposite as well.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by erasure

So if deep down we believe in two different philosophies, then obviously the ways we look at the same issues (such as education, labor laws, environmental protection and the rest) are going to be quite the opposite as well.

Well of course. But in what world? What community (we do live in communities) is the idea that me me me and mine mine mine, and more money more money, an acceptable philosophy?

Sure, it is a philosophy that exists. That doesn't make it one that is valid or socially acceptable. I can't think of a healthy community where that vision rules.

[Nodpete]

Originally Posted by erasure

May I please ask people from Illinois abstain from statements like "we need Scott Walker, we need to do the same as Scott Walker, we need to follow path of Scott Walker and we'll be doing as great as Wisconsin."
Number one - Wisconsin is not "doing great" under Walker; far away from it.
And number two - Illinois is not Wisconsin. Every state has its own specifics - the industries that make local economy tick and demographics to begin with. So what works for one state won't necessarily work for another.

In case you haven't noticed, NOTHING IS WORKING IN IL. ! Isn't it funny that the States that surround IL. aren't anywhere near our debt level. We're on the same level as Greece for crying out loud, what's good about that ? Even with the Junk Bond rating and unbelievable pension debt, and operating deficits over the entire State, the Dems propose a budget that is 4 BILLION dollars short of revenue, what the hell are they thinking and how can you support these people ? Maybe we don't need Scott Walker, but we sure need somebody like him !!

[ccjarider]

Originally Posted by erasure

May I please ask people from Illinois abstain from statements like "we need Scott Walker, we need to do the same as Scott Walker, we need to follow path of Scott Walker and we'll be doing as great as Wisconsin."
Number one - Wisconsin is not "doing great" under Walker; far away from it.
And number two - Illinois is not Wisconsin. Every state has its own specifics - the industries that make local economy tick and demographics to begin with. So what works for one state won't necessarily work for another.

Silly post.

Under no objective measure can anyone state that IL is doing better than WI. To not try and implement "best practice" from other locations would be naively stupid.

Further -it's an open forum - you can't shut down dialogue - although we get it. It is very much a tool in the lefty handbook these days.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Well of course. But in what world? What community (we do live in communities) is the idea that me me me and mine mine mine, and more money more money, an acceptable philosophy?

I'd think that this idea would be popular in the gated communities and among those who don't live in them, but wish they would.

Sure, it is a philosophy that exists. That doesn't make it one that is valid or socially acceptable.

It doesn't? But isn't this country built ( originally) on ideas of "individualism and freedom?"

If I google "individualism" - here it comes;

" America was built on the social-political ideals of Individualism; the philosophy of self-reliance, in the face of peril, and in the name freedom. "

The Essentiality of Individualism in Modern America | NationofChange

"In the Good Society, sociologist Robert Bellah and his coauthors challenge Americans to take a good look at themselves. Faced with growing homelessness, rising unemployment, crumbling highways, and impending ecological disaster, our response is one of apathy, frustration, cynicism, and retreat into our private worlds. The social problems confronting us today, the authors argue, are largely the result of failures of our institutions, and our response, largely the result of our failure to realize the degree to which our lives are shaped by institutional forces and the degree to which we, as a democratic society, can shape these forces for the better.
What prevents Americans from "taking charge" is, according to the authors, our long and abiding allegiance to "individualism" -- the belief that "the good society" is one in which individuals are left free to pursue their private satisfactions independently of others, a pattern of thinking that emphasizes individual achievement and self-fulfillment."


American Society and Individualism


"November 2001 -- One of the most popular mantras, following the terrorist attacks of September 11, declares how great it is to see Americans coming together as a nation after this tragedy. And it is wonderful to see Americans stand together against an enemy that would destroy us.

But another mantra, equally popular, expresses regret that this unity did not exist before the terror attacks. Prior to these attacks, Americans were aware of their many differences: racial, economic, political, and cultural. But now, all these differences have melted away into a unified nation sharing in the same goals. A third mantra worries still further that as time goes on, America will lose this sense of unity. We will return to being a nation of individuals, instead of a national community.
America, however, is a nation of individuals and individualism. This is the essence of our founding documents—that each of us could pursue our own happiness and goals, and that we would be free to do so with limited interference. This sense of individualism not only exists in our political thinking, but in our cultural thinking as well."

Community and American Individualism| Ayn Rand, Objectivism, and Individualism | The Atlas Society

I can't think of a healthy community where that vision rules.

Neither can I, but...
Look at the excerpts above.

[mlb]

No comparison between Illinois and Wisconsin.

Apples and oranges.

Illinois has a pension system that is about to explode if it hasn't already.

Walker wants to raid the great Wisconsin Retirement System for his own greed.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by Nodpete

In case you haven't noticed, NOTHING IS WORKING IN IL. ! Isn't it funny that the States that surround IL. aren't anywhere near our debt level. We're on the same level as Greece for crying out loud, what's good about that ?

I didn't say that "there is anything good about that," however don't forget that a lot of problems that you see in Illinois are not rooted in Illinois but rather they are rooted on a national level - that's number one, and number two - I can only repeat that Illinois is not Wisconsin; it has its own demographics, it has its own industries, so there is no one and the same solution for each and every state.

Even with the Junk Bond rating and unbelievable pension debt, and operating deficits over the entire State, the Dems propose a budget that is 4 BILLION dollars short of revenue, what the hell are they thinking and how can you support these people ? Maybe we don't need Scott Walker, but we sure need somebody like him !!

I don't know "what they are thinking" (do you? Did you follow their reasoning?)
If you'd be aware of their reasoning, then you'd be able to vote for someone, whose reasoning seem more agreeable to you. Do people in your state vote for someone like that, and if not, then why?

[erasure]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

Silly post.

Under no objective measure can anyone state that IL is doing better than WI.

Silly statement. Because I was not referring to "who is doing better" or worse, but to the difference between these two states.

To not try and implement "best practice" from other locations would be naively stupid.

What's even more stupid - is to see what you like elsewhere and pretend that it's going to be the same outcome/result anywhere else.

Further -it's an open forum - you can't shut down dialogue - although we get it. It is very much a tool in the lefty handbook these days.

No one is "shutting down the dialog." Just pointing where this "dialog" goes in wrong direction.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by erasure

I'd think that this idea would be popular in the gated communities and among those who don't live in them, but wish they would.

Gladly I don't know any people like that.

Originally Posted by erasure

It doesn't? But isn't this country built ( originally) on ideas of "individualism and freedom?"

Only in the romantic fairy tale we really tell ourselves about our history.

And did you really promote Ayn R??? She didn't even buy into her own schtick.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by mlb

No comparison between Illinois and Wisconsin.

Apples and oranges.

Illinois has a pension system that is about to explode if it hasn't already.

Walker wants to raid the great Wisconsin Retirement System for his own greed.

Well he took 250 million from public education in order to promote the private, for profit business NBA franchise in Milwaukee.

Raiding the rest of the coffers seems like a logical step.