"More Wisconsin Businesses Closing than Starting"

[LoveToRow]

Originally Posted by Empidonax

Or it's possible that both positions are valid. Maybe Wisconsin is "great for business"--perhaps it ought to be, given all of the turmoil here over the past several years. But it could still be the case that more businesses are closing than opening. In other words, Wisconsin is ready and ripe for business, but the kind of business it's set up for is not coming here at significant levels. Other states are still taking the lead.

Nah, I'll trust the professionals over C-D posters with a partisan axe to grind. Wisconsin went fron a bottom ten state to a top ten state economically. You can thank your conservative neighbors for voting Republican to make it happen.

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by LoveToRow

Nah, I'll trust the professionals over C-D posters with a partisan axe to grind. Wisconsin went fron a bottom ten state to a top ten state economically. You can thank your conservative neighbors for voting Republican to make it happen.

Nah. It would be a little more rigorous to examine the sources (and the sources of the sources) that the C-D posters post, then try to reconcile the most credible ("professional") ones (not just the ones that you like). But it's your prerogative to make your assertions in spite of the fact that the economy, like most multidimensional things, is actually rather complex. As if the "Evil GOPer - Kicks Puppies and Makes Kids Cry" didn't have a partisan axe to grind. LOL.

And while you're at it, you can thank liberal Minnesota, right next door, for serving as an example of what a good business environment can be.

[strawflower]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

We were just back in WI for a wedding. Everyone we spoke with had good things to say about how they felt their economic situations were faring. People were working. People were getting new and better jobs. People were buying houses. In general, a positive vibe.


I also must say there were lot's of "Help Wanted" and "We are Hiring" signs out. We were all over the place (Appleton, Kenosha, Milwaukee, Whitewater and Crandon.)


Anecdotal to be sure but it's what we experienced.

I think it really depends on what line of work you are in.

For the people with less education, who are really only qualified for the kinds of jobs that are advertised by "help wanted" signs (i.e. the lower skill), Wisconsin is suiting them very well. It's a great place to live if you have less experience/education but still want to make a livable wage. But most of the highly educated people I know, who work in the high-paying, "information" industries like finance, tech, research, etc., Wisconsin is pretty lackluster and they generally move out of state for better opportunities.

It's called brain drain.

[ccjarider]

Originally Posted by strawflower

I think it really depends on what line of work you are in.

For the people with less education, who are really only qualified for the kinds of jobs that are advertised by "help wanted" signs (i.e. the lower skill), Wisconsin is suiting them very well. It's a great place to live if you have less experience/education but still want to make a livable wage. But most of the highly educated people I know, who work in the high-paying, "information" industries like finance, tech, research, etc., Wisconsin is pretty lackluster and they generally move out of state for better opportunities.

It's called brain drain.

Perhaps, but most of the folks I visited with and/or met for first time were pretty smart and decently high up the food chain. The wedding was for two Marquette graduate, doctors.

The people we met with over the week covered a wide array of professions. Engineer, doctor, computer programmer, real estate developer, investor, small business owners, banker, paper mill worker, janitor, teacher, artist and an IRS worker are the professions that come to mind. I am sure there were more but these are ones I remember. Most had pretty neat stories, seemed excited about the future and were generally happy.

As I get older, I realize almost every piece of "news" is really just slanted editorializing and therefore pay little attention to a survey or study because it can be almost guaranteed the author has an agenda.

I doubt very much that WI is seeing a "brain drain". I do not doubt that young people who were born and raised there leave for other places. I also think that has been going on for 100 years as is the case in almost any local.

I live in an allegedly super desirable place right now. Portland has many people coming from all over the world to experience a little "Portlandia." I also know plenty of high school kids and and college aged people who can't wait to leave to experience something else. It is called human nature.

[CtrlEsc]

Originally Posted by strawflower

I think it really depends on what line of work you are in.

For the people with less education, who are really only qualified for the kinds of jobs that are advertised by "help wanted" signs (i.e. the lower skill), Wisconsin is suiting them very well. It's a great place to live if you have less experience/education but still want to make a livable wage. But most of the highly educated people I know, who work in the high-paying, "information" industries like finance, tech, research, etc., Wisconsin is pretty lackluster and they generally move out of state for better opportunities.

It's called brain drain.

I may be anecdotal along with one of my former coworkers but we both moved out of Illinois to Wisconsin for better jobs. We are both in Software Development.

[TRlaura]

Originally Posted by CtrlEsc

I may be anecdotal along with one of my former coworkers but we both moved out of Illinois to Wisconsin for better jobs. We are both in Software Development.

But nobody wants to acknowledge those of us that moved here from another state for a good job. They only want to talk about those that left.


I can guarantee you that no matter what state I was born and raised in, I would have moved away from it just to move away from it.

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by TRlaura

But nobody wants to acknowledge those of us that moved here from another state for a good job. They only want to talk about those that left.


I can guarantee you that no matter what state I was born and raised in, I would have moved away from it just to move away from it.

"Brain drain" features "those who left" over those who stayed, so yes, in this thread about the state economy, the former will be emphasized. I too came from another state for a job in Wisconsin, but understand that, overall, the state loses college grads to other states (and countries).

"Brain drain" at the state level occurs when there is a net out-migration of college grads. The graphic in this article (regarding college grads under 40, 2010-2015) is one of many that demonstrate this situation:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/u...eave.html?_r=0

Most coastal states, a couple of southern states, and a couple of inland states show gains; most midwestern and northeastern states show losses.

Data for these studies come from a variety of sources, but primarily U.S. Census figures and estimates.

[helena101]

Originally Posted by James Bond 007

As of December the unemployment rate in Green Bay is 3.4% - which is very low (source). When it gets that low, most everybody who wants a job, has a job, and the only way you can get workers is to steal them away from some other employer. Contrary to popular belief, raising wages does not help much in that situation, because when you're forced to steal workers from another employer, suddenly that other employer is short workers. One could say that that other employer, in turn, should then raise wages, but if we take this train of thought to its logical extreme, every employer will be raising wages indefinitely. Obviously that cannot happen because businesses exist to make money, and one cannot make money if one is forced to raise employee wages to infinity. So at some point, the practical thing to do for the business owner is throw in the towel and close down. This is particularly true for businesses like restaurants, which are notorious for being money losers and having high failure rates (except, perhaps, chains, which can capture some economies of scale that mom-and-pop restaurants can't).

You don't see most cities with low unemployment being forced to shutter all their businesses. For lower level jobs there are many able-bodied people (high school and college students, stay at home parents, etc) who would eagerly enter the workforce if the compensation package was worthwhile. For professional jobs, the way many businesses solve this issue is by drawing in workers from other states or other countries.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by LoveToRow

Nah, I'll trust the professionals over C-D posters with a partisan axe to grind. Wisconsin went fron a bottom ten state to a top ten state economically. You can thank your conservative neighbors for voting Republican to make it happen.

No it didn't. Not even close to the truth. No where is it is top ten state economically.


That was one poll on best places to do business. That has nothing to do with how it is economically, in fact, they're often opposites. Looks at some of the lowest ranked states: Massachusetts, California, New York, etc. Those are the ones with some of the most vibrant economies, which makes them expensive to do business in. Look back at these different rankings on "best states to do business in", they're almost entirely correlated with reduced cost of doing business (low wages, reduced environmental regulation, lack of union labor, etc), which often (not always, but often) comes about because of poor economies and misguided attempts and trying to attract businesses. Look at where has the best salaries, the best increases in value, the highest productivities, and their you find the best economies.

Originally Posted by TRlaura

But nobody wants to acknowledge those of us that moved here from another state for a good job. They only want to talk about those that left.


I can guarantee you that no matter what state I was born and raised in, I would have moved away from it just to move away from it.

Actually, people want to look at the data. Both MN and IL have net positive flows of college educated individuals. Wisconsin has a net negative flow. That is brain drain measured.