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Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
Making something of your career is the individual's responsibility, not the managers. Those 'essential' employees are in general noticed, even if the individual work is not.
That being said, having a bad manager can really hold you back and is reason enough to look for a different job.
I actually agree with this. Unfortunately, folks don't have much flexibility right now in locating alternative work due to the current economic woes.
Back to the original subject - It isn't fair of the managers to have different rules for parents and another for those without children. A situation where there are employees who are constantly picking up the slack for others can create a serious lack of morale within the work environment, which is something that managers should strive to avoid. It also leads to burnout and exhaustion for those who are often expected to work later at the expense of their personal life.
Last edited by Chatteress; 06-14-2010 at 02:58 PM..
Making something of your career is the individual's responsibility, not the managers. Those 'essential' employees are in general noticed, even if the individual work is not.
That being said, having a bad manager can really hold you back and is reason enough to look for a different job.
First of all, I never said it was my manager's responsibility to help me with my career ambitions. Second, it shouldn't be necessary to prove that I'm an "essential" employee. The issue here is one of poor management. Most managers are too busy to notice the day-to-day performance of every person they manage. That I can certainly understand. But they should be aware of any inequities they may be fostering. I'll give you an example.
At one of my previous jobs, I worked on a team with no hierarchy. We all had the exact same job and responsibilities. No one was senior or junior and it didn't matter if you had been at the company for 1 year or 5 years. But one guy who had been a project manager at a previous job felt like he was above us and that the job he was doing was a waste of his talents. So he decided to pursue an MBA at night. In order to get to his classes on time, however, he had to leave the office by 5. While the overall quality of his work didn't suffer, what did happen was that whatever he didn't finish by 5 ended up being reassigned to someone else on the team, even if that meant having to stay past 5 in order to finish it on time. If you've ever worked on an engineering team, then you know what happens when one person misses a deadline. It derails the whole project plan and impacts everyone, especially if they're waiting on you to finish a task that they depend on. Perhaps the rest of us on the team should've said something to our manager. But I think we were all afraid of coming off like a bunch of whiners. And at the time, none of us knew how the others felt. It was only years later that I learned the other guys on the team felt like I did.
Anyways, by the time the guy getting his MBA finished, he issued an ultimatum of sorts to our manager. He'd be made project manager or quit. So he got what he wanted. The rest of us were very unhappy. Not only did we not think he had the temperament to make a good manager, we resented that we had done some of his work when he was running off to class and now some of us would be reporting to him. As several posters here have pointed out, feeling like you're being treated unfairly leads to low worker morale and productivity. So while none of us protested this promotion, it did disrupt the team dynamic. Several guys started looking for new jobs. The ones who remained behind did what they could to avoid working with our new PM and if they had to, they didn't exactly go out of their way to do their best work. This was back during the good market where you could easily go find another job. Nowadays, you just have to put up with it cause so many other people are lined up ready to take your job.
First of all, I never said it was my manager's responsibility to help me with my career ambitions. Second, it shouldn't be necessary to prove that I'm an "essential" employee. The issue here is one of poor management. Most managers are too busy to notice the day-to-day performance of every person they manage. That I can certainly understand. But they should be aware of any inequities they may be fostering. I'll give you an example.
At one of my previous jobs, I worked on a team with no hierarchy. We all had the exact same job and responsibilities. No one was senior or junior and it didn't matter if you had been at the company for 1 year or 5 years. But one guy who had been a project manager at a previous job felt like he was above us and that the job he was doing was a waste of his talents. So he decided to pursue an MBA at night. In order to get to his classes on time, however, he had to leave the office by 5. While the overall quality of his work didn't suffer, what did happen was that whatever he didn't finish by 5 ended up being reassigned to someone else on the team, even if that meant having to stay past 5 in order to finish it on time. If you've ever worked on an engineering team, then you know what happens when one person misses a deadline. It derails the whole project plan and impacts everyone, especially if they're waiting on you to finish a task that they depend on. Perhaps the rest of us on the team should've said something to our manager. But I think we were all afraid of coming off like a bunch of whiners. And at the time, none of us knew how the others felt. It was only years later that I learned the other guys on the team felt like I did.
Anyways, by the time the guy getting his MBA finished, he issued an ultimatum of sorts to our manager. He'd be made project manager or quit. So he got what he wanted. The rest of us were very unhappy. Not only did we not think he had the temperament to make a good manager, we resented that we had done some of his work when he was running off to class and now some of us would be reporting to him. As several posters here have pointed out, feeling like you're being treated unfairly leads to low worker morale and productivity. So while none of us protested this promotion, it did disrupt the team dynamic. Several guys started looking for new jobs. The ones who remained behind did what they could to avoid working with our new PM and if they had to, they didn't exactly go out of their way to do their best work. This was back during the good market where you could easily go find another job. Nowadays, you just have to put up with it cause so many other people are lined up ready to take your job.
So, workers with kids are not the only ones who may benefit from a double standard. Those going to school, those who are chronically ill, those who have dying relatives to tend to -- all can and sometimes should be cut some slack. Not just those with kids.
It's pretty easy to see a pattern with the issue. Every Monday morning or Friday all day their kid just happens to get sick. Or a 3 day weekend is made into a 4 day weekend because "my son doesn't feel well." It's too convenient - and it's the same people over and over. We have two ladies in the office whose kids are "sick" so often they should be in a bubble. Kids are the ultimate excuse to get out of work.
First of all, I never said it was my manager's responsibility to help me with my career ambitions. Second, it shouldn't be necessary to prove that I'm an "essential" employee. The issue here is one of poor management. Most managers are too busy to notice the day-to-day performance of every person they manage. That I can certainly understand. But they should be aware of any inequities they may be fostering. I'll give you an example.
At one of my previous jobs, I worked on a team with no hierarchy. We all had the exact same job and responsibilities. No one was senior or junior and it didn't matter if you had been at the company for 1 year or 5 years. But one guy who had been a project manager at a previous job felt like he was above us and that the job he was doing was a waste of his talents. So he decided to pursue an MBA at night. In order to get to his classes on time, however, he had to leave the office by 5. While the overall quality of his work didn't suffer, what did happen was that whatever he didn't finish by 5 ended up being reassigned to someone else on the team, even if that meant having to stay past 5 in order to finish it on time. If you've ever worked on an engineering team, then you know what happens when one person misses a deadline. It derails the whole project plan and impacts everyone, especially if they're waiting on you to finish a task that they depend on. Perhaps the rest of us on the team should've said something to our manager. But I think we were all afraid of coming off like a bunch of whiners. And at the time, none of us knew how the others felt. It was only years later that I learned the other guys on the team felt like I did.
Anyways, by the time the guy getting his MBA finished, he issued an ultimatum of sorts to our manager. He'd be made project manager or quit. So he got what he wanted. The rest of us were very unhappy. Not only did we not think he had the temperament to make a good manager, we resented that we had done some of his work when he was running off to class and now some of us would be reporting to him. As several posters here have pointed out, feeling like you're being treated unfairly leads to low worker morale and productivity. So while none of us protested this promotion, it did disrupt the team dynamic. Several guys started looking for new jobs. The ones who remained behind did what they could to avoid working with our new PM and if they had to, they didn't exactly go out of their way to do their best work. This was back during the good market where you could easily go find another job. Nowadays, you just have to put up with it cause so many other people are lined up ready to take your job.
I understand what you are saying, but I disagree strongly with the part of your post that I bolded.
It is absolutely necessary to prove you are an essential employee. No one else is looking out for you! Your career and your livelihood is your responsibility, not your manager's. You need to prove you are the best person at your job that the company has ever seen every day in order to be considered one of the essentials that always gets the promotion. Your entire life is a PR campaign to sell yourself for the next best job.
It's pretty easy to see a pattern with the issue. Every Monday morning or Friday all day their kid just happens to get sick. Or a 3 day weekend is made into a 4 day weekend because "my son doesn't feel well." It's too convenient - and it's the same people over and over. We have two ladies in the office whose kids are "sick" so often they should be in a bubble. Kids are the ultimate excuse to get out of work.
It's pretty easy to see a pattern with the issue. Every Monday morning or Friday all day their kid just happens to get sick. Or a 3 day weekend is made into a 4 day weekend because "my son doesn't feel well." It's too convenient - and it's the same people over and over. We have two ladies in the office whose kids are "sick" so often they should be in a bubble. Kids are the ultimate excuse to get out of work.
There are plenty of people without kids who do this as well.
There are plenty of people without kids who do this as well.
Interesting discussion!
I'm sure there are plenty who do this. After spending many decades of working in a business environment, I can say that my own observations were that it was heavily skewed (like 90%) to those with kids. I do hope it has changed since I retired.
People with kids left early, arrived late, with no effort to make up the time. There was an expectation that the childless had nothing better to do with their lives, so they naturally could take up the slack.
People with kids got to take Christmas and other holidays while the childless were expected to work, year after year. The childless were treated as if they had no families.
The ones with kids never had to travel out of town for meetings or presentations. Sometimes this was a blessing; other times it was a curse.
Unfortunately, many bosses paid the parental units a higher salary "because he/she has a family to raise", whether that parent actually earned it. Sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't. Because of the secrecy surrounding salaries (which bosses rely on and encourage) it was difficult to find out you were getting the shaft, but not impossible.
Unfortunately, many bosses paid the parental units a higher salary "because he/she has a family to raise", whether that parent actually earned it. Sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't. Because of the secrecy surrounding salaries (which bosses rely on and encourage) it was difficult to find out you were getting the shaft, but not impossible.
One of my former coworkers left because of this attitude in her department. She was expected to pick up the slack of the people with kids, but when she asked why she wasn't paid as much, her manager told her, "they've got families to raise and you don't."
Unfortunately, many bosses paid the parental units a higher salary "because he/she has a family to raise", whether that parent actually earned it. Sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't. Because of the secrecy surrounding salaries (which bosses rely on and encourage) it was difficult to find out you were getting the shaft, but not impossible.
This kind of brings up another point. Should you care about what your coworkers make? I have always been of the opinion that you worry about yourself. You are either OK or not OK with your salary. It shouldn't depend on what others are making.
For example, I happen to know that a co-worker of mine makes quite a bit more money than me. We do very similar work. I also know that this person made a lot more money at his previous company and that is why he makes more now. I was probably underpaid at my previous company and that is certainly part of why I am making less now. But, I am fine with my salary. I think it is a bit above average. So does it matter that my coworker makes more money than me? Not in my opinion. More power to him for getting a nice salary.
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