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Did the UAW save the thousands and thousands of auto jobs that have been lost over the last 20 years? Has the steel workers union saved all the jobs that have gone overseas to other countries who are making it cheaper, cheap enough that the shipping costs included is cheaper than making it here? Unions were needed when companies were using children and even the adults were treated unfairly and were made to work in unsafe conditions.
Unions aren't miracle workers. The only way to compete with these third world countries is to become a third world country ourselves and if things don't change, that is exactly what is going to happen. The downfall of this country has nothing to do with unions; it does have everything to do with NAFTA.
We are paid what the market says we are worth. What union wages are inflated? Examples please.
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Originally Posted by trishguard
And they are. While others are paid according to an agreed upon contract.
When people are not allowed to be fired for mediocre (not poor, but mediocre!) performance, that is being paid an inflated wage.
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Originally Posted by frizzo100
This is exactly the comment I would expect from somebody high and mighty like you that thinks everybody is beneath him. Not everybody can have a cushy office job like you. The average working man really doesn't have much of a chance by himself but when you get group of people to fight for what is right collectively, it makes it very hard for the company to ignore them. This is the reasons unions were formed in the first place. Now it seems everything unions have fought for has fallen by the wayside.
Yes I know there are some unions jobs that pay too much. There are also companies that are very profitable in spite of paying union wages but are using the economy as an excuse to move jobs out of the country. It seems as though good profit isn't enough anymore. These companies want to make a killing at all cost just so they can please the shareholders and the CEO can make his multimillion dollar bonus. The bottom line is they will never be happy until the average worker is living in mud huts.
Wow. Calm down champ. I was just giving my opinion, no need to beat me into the ground. OK slick? I work 75-80 hours / week right now, and will for the next few years at this pace. I guarantee my 'cushy office job' is more miserable than your job right now (unless you work 90 hour weeks, then I will apologize). Get off of your damn high horse and stop being so judgmental.
I will seek to achieve the maximum marginal rate or return per worker, and that is defined by the market. When a union worker takes a wage that is higher than the market rate, they put someone who is willing to work for the going rate out of work and they also prevent the company from achieving a true profit which prevents the company from growing and creating more jobs. But hey, if you are OK having a higher wage at the expense of your unemployed neighbor's job, go for it champ! Personally, I couldn't sleep at night with that attitude though.
Did the UAW save the thousands and thousands of auto jobs that have been lost over the last 20 years? Has the steel workers union saved all the jobs that have gone overseas to other countries who are making it cheaper, cheap enough that the shipping costs included is cheaper than making it here? Unions were needed when companies were using children and even the adults were treated unfairly and were made to work in unsafe conditions.
The UAW really tried. They couldn't stop management from designing and building crappy cars though. With the demise of the UAW you see a lot of middle class jobs go with it. Those middle class jobs provided more middle class jobs for others. What America is becoming is more service based that typically pays less than the manufacturing that has left the country. Retail, fast food, etc.
Oh and blaming the unions for pushing companies overseas...please...they were going anyway riding the wave of the middle class while they could. Soon most folks will be buying old cheap used cars. As it is the median family can't even afford a regular new car, at least on paper. $30k for a Ford? With a median income in the $60k range families aren't going to be buying Fords. They are buying used Kias and Hyundais, reducing even more American jobs.
If you really want to see the economy flourish, increase the wages of those in the middle. Otherwise we will see our economy slowly circle the drain as the life is sucked out of it.
In my current situation, I'm not sure how a union would benefit me at all. However, I understand what the Teamsters have done for all American truckers, for better (mostly) or (somewhat) worse. Now, I'm in favor of public sector unions and I truly understand and appreciate why my teacher-wife (wo's a no-nonsense, back-to-basics, excellent teacher) wouldn't step foot into a classroom without belonging to a union.
The UAW really tried. They couldn't stop management from designing and building crappy cars though. With the demise of the UAW you see a lot of middle class jobs go with it. Those middle class jobs provided more middle class jobs for others. What America is becoming is more service based that typically pays less than the manufacturing that has left the country. Retail, fast food, etc.
Oh and blaming the unions for pushing companies overseas...please...they were going anyway riding the wave of the middle class while they could. Soon most folks will be buying old cheap used cars. As it is the median family can't even afford a regular new car, at least on paper. $30k for a Ford? With a median income in the $60k range families aren't going to be buying Fords. They are buying used Kias and Hyundais, reducing even more American jobs.
If you really want to see the economy flourish, increase the wages of those in the middle. Otherwise we will see our economy slowly circle the drain as the life is sucked out of it.
Who was blaming the unions for the lost jobs that go overseas? I just stated that those jobs were lost and would have been lost whether they were union or not. The unions ensure that when layoffs occur that the company follows the layoff procedure that was agreed upon at contract time. But 99% of the time its the company's original layoff procedure that the union agrees to in the contract. So what did paying all those unions dues get those union members? It didn't change the end result, they were laid off.
There are still Unions? Just kidding-I've belonged to a Union for the past 25 years. When we go, so will the rest of the non-union working class. Who will they blame then?
My experience with the union is every worker is treated equal. I've seen guys who were dedicated and give 120% of what is expected and at the end of the day they are paid and promoted based ONLY on the amount of time they have been there. So the slacker with 10 years will be promoted and given a better raise than the guy w/9 years who works his ass off. What kind of motivation is that?
A lot of the things people take for granted today were paid for by the blood of the early labor organizers. How would you like to be paid in scrip redeemable only at the company store or to pay the rent on your company-owned shack?
I've never worked a union job, but I enjoy many things that those brave guys fought for so many years ago.
For instance, today, it's Sunday and I don't have to work!
^ Always the first thing pointed to when this question is asked. As if it's 1920 and people are still working 20 hours a day and living in tents. Following this logic, today we should be pushing for mandatory 25 hour work weeks and 4 weeks of paid vacation.
Union usefulness ended about 50 years ago, along with the Democrat party.
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