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I have been making 6 figures since my late 20s. I do not work for myself, but I do have an MBA from a top business school, as well as a top-tier undergraduate degree. My career is a high-stress one where long hours are the norm and burnout happens all the time. I don't know that it would be any different if I were working for myself, but I doubt it.
I have friends who were in a similar career path who have made drastic changes once they hit a "safe" financial number. One friend who was with a top management consulting firm now works for a no-name company for about a third less salary, because the hours are effectively 9-5, there is limited travel, and he can work from home whenever he needs to. He makes a very good point when he notes that there is no reason to make big bucks if you never have time to spend it.
30 years in corporate jobs, then 6 years of self-employment. I first made $100K in 1988 or 1989 (hard to remember), seven or eight years after I started working full-time. Peak years were a multiple of that. The work wasn't harder, but the responsibility was profoundly greater, with a whole company's ability to pay its obligations contingent on my team being competent. When I vested in lifetime medical care at age 55 I went out on my own by setting up a consulting practice, and have made six figures every year, but with quite a bit of variability. I like being self-employed and plan to continue it. I am a graduate of a top 5 MBA program.
Graduated with an EE degree in 2004; The first tax return over 100k was filed for calendar year 2007. The bonus was a little smaller the following year so I went down to $85k. Moved steadily back over the 100 mark, approaching right under 200 at age 32. I work in wireless solution design and systems engineering. Stress level is medium-low except during proposal time or when dealing with upset customers.
I went to a good law school and graduated near the top of my class; starting salary was $160k. Assuming you are in the top 10% of your class and that you attend a top-30 or better law school, this is the standard starting salary that everyone gets. The law firms don't even negotiate on salary, they just say "we pay market". There are one or two firms that pay more but you have to go to a top 3 law school, and you'll work even harder once you get there.
Unfortunately for the other 90% of my school (and something like 95% of all law grads), if you don't get the $160k job you usually get something in the $50k-$80k range. There are a handful of firms that pay under "market" but still close, like around $140k, then a few that pay in the $110k range, but not many. It's never a surprise while you're in school, though- you know by the end of your first year whether you'll be getting a great job when you graduate. It makes the other two years of law school pretty easy (if you know you have the job).
Once you start at the law firm, though, your life is pretty terrible for at least 3 or 4 years. Crazy long hours, more stress than you can imagine, but by the time you're 30 years old you can go somewhere else making over $200k and work regular hours. If you happen to like the lifestyle, you can make $300k/yr in 5-6 years and $400k not too long after. Partnership comes after your 10th year, and first year partners make anywhere from $600k to $1m+. Lots of divorced and never-married partners.
Mine wasn't the traditional path- I worked for a few years before law school in my field (tax), so I only had to endure a year and a half of torture at the law firm before I was able to leave for greener pastures.
NYCresident2014, you are also in a very, very hot area of law, especially in NY, I work in hedge fund and it's impossible to find qualified people for tax team. Agree with everything you said regarding the typical path out of good law school, my question to you-how do you know by the end of first school year whether you are destined for one of the white shoe firms? Is it the grades? Being on the law review? Just trying to figure out whether this is a path I want one of my kids to go to.
Worked on Wall Street. Went to a top tier school for an MBA back when it meant something to have that degree. Started in a special situations group for a bulge bracket firm, and over the years became an institutional trader/position trader, and then went on to run a trading desk, an equities division, and then an international securities business for a global bank.
Money was good/great. It consumes your entire life. I have been to every airport in the world, (it feels like) and seen every hotel, and am only now starting to "see the world". Rarely do you mix pleasure with your business in that sort of job. One false move...either economic or political, and you are done. I have been fired, as has anyone who is any good at taking risk. It happens.
Stressful? Yup. You try going in and telling your boss you just dropped multiple seven figures, and it isn't getting better. Every firm I worked for either no longer exists...think Lehman Brothers.....or has been acquired and molded into a sausage factory (think Salomon Brothers into Citibank). Everyone I ever knew that made it BIG is either in jail, or dead. Including several hundred of my very dear friends who died in the Trade Center Towers. It is your life. Completely.
And then there is the ex wife who made the best trade ever. Sold the top of the market (me) and got all the money.
And now I run my own money and a little customer stuff just for giggles. Days are down to an even 12 or 13 hours, and the compensation is decent. No more travel except what I choose.
It is not the lifestyle for everyone, and most wash out for a variety of reasons--regardless of the industry. Since this thread was started a few years back, $80,000 or $100,000 or whatever it was the OP was asking about has become at least $500,000. Everyone makes $80,000 today or you are living in poverty.
Just remember two things: in all my years I have never met a person who could put their trousers on both legs at a time. Until I do, I am not going to believe that there are super human beings out there. We are all the same--for whatever reason some of us just got more lucky than others when it came to the pay check. And secondly, you meet the same people on the way down that you walked on on the way up. Start thinking you are hot stuff because you have seven figures on your tax form, and you will get shot out of the sky faster than bird poop from a goose.
NYCresident2014, you are also in a very, very hot area of law, especially in NY, I work in hedge fund and it's impossible to find qualified people for tax team. Agree with everything you said regarding the typical path out of good law school, my question to you-how do you know by the end of first school year whether you are destined for one of the white shoe firms? Is it the grades? Being on the law review? Just trying to figure out whether this is a path I want one of my kids to go to.
I agree with you that tax is a desirable field, but really any corporate or litigation attorney at a big law firm in NYC will have a fantastic career path if they do their time at a firm. Funny you mention that you work at a hedge fund- our firm (Ropes & Gray) did a lot with hedge funds and PE clients. The standard path for the corporate attorneys seems to be 3-5 years at Ropes then in-house at a hedge fund. The tax field is a bit different because we also tend to go in house at large corporations (that's the route I took), but the corporate attorneys do that too on occasion.
As far as how you know when you get the job, it's actually a ridiculous system- you interview for your post-law school job in the summer between your first and second year of law school. If you don't get an interview that summer, then there is a razor thin chance that you'll get another shot in the summer between your second and third year, but these positions are extremely rare and usually only come up when someone drops out before starting at the firm.
To make things even more ridiculous, really the only metric you are evaluated on is your grades in your first two semesters. Law review doesn't really matter, because if your grades are sufficient to get the interview, they will likely be sufficient to "grade on" to law review. As far as grades, the better the school, the lower the cutoff. At my school (Fordham), the cutoff for the top 10% was around a 3.6 GPA. If you go to a better school, you can still get hired with grades outside the top 10%. In extreme cases, like Harvard, you don't even really have grades and you get the job by being a normal person. There were some success stories about people at considerably worse schools who were valedictorians, but naturally these are quite rare.
For illustration purposes, at Fordham you are allowed to apply to 25 firms during on-campus interviews. I applied to 25, got 17 interview requests, 10 callbacks, then took the first offer since it was my top choice. I had a friend with a 3.45 GPA, just outside the top 10% but still in the top 25%, and for her it was much worse- of 25 applications, she got 4 interviews and no callbacks. She said that the interviewers didn't even really want to meet with her but that they agree to interview people outside of the top 10% as a concession to the school for being allowed to interview on-campus. She said that they had already made up their minds before she walked in the room; a story that I corroborated because my first-round interviews were much more "what's your favorite sport/food/tv show" than anything about the law.
This system is all pretty crazy, but it's actually pretty comforting if you're on the right side of the cutoff. It is very rare to be offered a summer associate position after your first summer then not ultimately work at that firm. So, as long as you don't majorly screw up, the second and third years of law school are just about learning and not really stressful.
As far as whether you should recommend it for your kids, there is a great middle ground. If your child is serious about it, have him or her take a serious crack at the LSAT. If the LSAT score is high, then the chances of getting into a good school are high, and ultimately the chances of getting into a $160k law firm are also high. If the LSAT isn't great, and if the undergrad scores aren't great, then it might be a tough slog and statistically difficult to break into the big firm, but many people are still very happy law graduates.
Lastly, on whether I would recommend law firm life... a strong "maybe". I was an outlier because I was married with a kid as a first year associate and also a few years later into my life and career so I just couldn't stand the soul-crushing hours. However, most first-year associates are 25 and single, so their job sort of becomes their life. They go out together after work and on weekends, and generally just get into the whole experience. I would have stayed there longer if I were able to assimilate into the culture. Working past midnight isn't so bad when you're with your friends anyway and don't have to get home to the wife and kids. Also, the amount you learn while working at the law firm is night and day as compared to other environments (since you work so much), so it really sets you up for a fantastic career making lots of money. I now work at a mid to large multinational corporation and was able to take the salary with me but not the stress; I don't think I could have earned this position if not for my time at the law firm so I am really happy with my path so far.
Those that make over $100,000 per year, you don't have to say where you work, but do you work a traditional job as an employee or do you own your own business? How long did it take you to work up to that salary? Has your life been less stressful or is it more stressful because you have to work so much/ Just curious.
I have worked in sales for the last 7 years (34 years old). I have not made under 100k since starting this career. My first job was in industrial sales and I made over $100k but it was stressful. mainly because the company was micromanaging every detail.
I left that and went into medical sales and you can not get a better QOL unless you are a successful/hands off business owner. I have made between $180k-$260k with a fantastic QOL. I run my territory like a business and my boss lives in another state.
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