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Let me go ahead and show all the management, executives, and all other head honchos here as to why most of the workforce has, at least in management and their minions' opinions, an 'entitlement mentality'.
You say for us to go to college and get a BA/BS degree in a field and go apply to some company for a job. Okay, that's fine. I think we're all cool with that. But have you realistically considered how bad an investment you're suggesting to us?
Let's start with the numbers:
Average tuition/books/etc for a 4 year Baccalaureate degree over 4 years: $30,000
Average starting pay for a job that requires a BA/BS degree: $25,000 -$30,000
Okay, you might say, big deal, just live on the cheap and pay off the student loans for the next ten years. But is it really worth the pay you're advertising? Put aside all the promises of promotions; that's bloatware to me. It's sales puffery. Does anyone actually get ahead in this scenario?
I'll use my own numbers and personal finances for this one so some of the numbers may be a bit low to people in expensive areas.
Gross Monthly Income - $2,100
Taxes and SS/Government crap - 420.00
Rent - $500.00 - 550.00
All other expenses - $400.00 - $500.00 (yes it's that cheap for me)
Total Expenses and Taxes $1,320.00 - $1,470.00 per month
This is before paying off those student loans. Realistically, you shouldn't go more than 8 years on a student loan since you'll pay a ton of interest over the long term. You also run a risk of defaulting on the loan the longer you keep it, and defaults on student loans are NOT FUN. There's a lot of bad **** going around because of student loans, believe me. I will use an interest rate of 7% compounding interest for this loan. A 96 month loan on $30,000.00 @ 7% comes out to $409.01 per month. So, subtract this from your monthly income as well:
Gross Monthly Income - $2,100.00
Taxes/SS/Government Crap - $420.00
Rent - $500.00 - $550.00
Student Loans - $409.01
All Other Expenses - $400.00 - $500.00
Total Expenses and Taxes $1,729.01 - $1,879.01
Net Profit per month - $220.99 - $370.99
Sure, you're walking away with money in this scenario. But what would happen if I didn't go back to school and just worked some $10 - $11/hr job? (Assuming $10/hr @ 2080 hours per year)
Gross Monthly Income - $1,700.00
Taxes/SS/Government Crap - $340.00
Rent - $500.00 - $550.00
All Other Expenses - $400.00 - $500.00
Total Expenses and Taxes - $1,280.00 - $1,430.00
Net Profit Per month - $310.00 - $460.00
SO in this case I actually come out ahead WITHOUT a degree. You can make the argument that eventually I'll get raises and promotions - that's something that is a vague promise in the future. For all I know you might keep me for a year and then throw me under the bus with all the other people as before. I suppose an engineering grad might pull a higher salary but those jobs aren't as plentiful as you might think. Also, those jobs are being filled by experienced workers mostly. So, where again is it a good idea to go back to school? As an investment I say it stinks.
So, the next time someone brings up the thought that today's younger workers have an entitlement mentality of any sort, keep this in mind because I am getting sick of the media pushing this BS. My numbers are probably pretty generous; I know that a lot of people spend a lot more on tuition and/or their job has job expenses that are much bigger than what I've shown. A lot of jobs have unwritten requirements like driving a newer car or having the latest fashions or having a full-service cellphone plan, etc etc...or they're only in cities that have a high COL. If corporate America is trying to sell this as a solid investment I'd say that Wall Street and Main Street are both off their rockers.
So tell me how everyone under the age of 30 is able to afford the newest smartphone, designer clothes, a new or very late model car (usually foreign European name) and seems to have this huge social life??
Also, where are you getting your numbers from?? $25,000 a year entry level?? for whom -- someone starting out as an associate at Wal Mart?? $500- $550 for rent?? again where exactly??
Both the income & expense numbers are way way off for any single person in 2012.. But please answer paragraph number one because it always amazes me how many recent grads are able to rent apartments for say $1500 and up ($1500 a month will get you a tiny studio an hour outside of Boston) and seem to have unlimited amounts of disposable income especially for clothes & this huge social life that is constantly talked about
So tell me how everyone under the age of 30 is able to afford the newest smartphone, designer clothes, a new or very late model car (usually foreign European name) and seems to have this huge social life??
Also, where are you getting your numbers from?? $25,000 a year entry level?? for whom -- someone starting out as an associate at Wal Mart?? $500- $550 for rent?? again where exactly??
Both the income & expense numbers are way way off for any single person in 2012.. But please answer paragraph number one because it always amazes me how many recent grads are able to rent apartments for say $1500 and up ($1500 a month will get you a tiny studio an hour outside of Boston) and seem to have unlimited amounts of disposable income especially for clothes & this huge social life that is constantly talked about
Agreed! These younger folks doing all the whining seem to have nicer stuff than little ol' me, who works 40-50 hours a week to etch a living. I make plenty more than 25K, and still don't think those kinds of frills fit into the budget. Rent around here is easily $750 (I pay $650 for a simple studio), but no one says you have to start out with your own pad. Roommates are practical for most people starting out. Heck, I've been doing my job for 5 years, and when I moved for work, I lived with a roommate for quite some time. Mostly because I didn't want to sign a lease, but still wanted to be in a decent area. I think the problem is some people simply spend it as fast as they earn it, maybe because they feel it's just the way it's supposed to be.
I also had to laugh listening to some of my female friends talk about dating young guys these days. Sure, they look like they have money, with the nice things and all... But all too often, it's all show and no dough.
When kids grow up receiving overflowing rewards simply for:
- coloring within the lines
- participating in a soccer team
- celebrating every 'special' day: Easter, Valentine, birthdays, Christmas, etc.
They are conditioned to expect exactly the same generous rewards in every situation. So, parents, stop spoiling the kids with material goods in the name of love. That's not love.
And kids, think for yourselves. What others try to sell you are not equivalent to what's good for you.
When kids grow up receiving overflowing rewards simply for:
- coloring within the lines
- participating in a soccer team
- celebrating every 'special' day: Easter, Valentine, birthdays, Christmas, etc.
They are conditioned to expect exactly the same generous rewards in every situation.
Many younger kids I have worked with over the past several years...usually a year out of college expect to get a big salary, expect to get raises and promotions every year and expect to get everything they want right out of the gate and for doing the minimum required of their job (not all of them that I have worked with, but a fair number).
The concept of starting at the bottom and working your way up seems to be a foreign concept.
At the age of 41, I now make a fairly comfortable living. But when I got my first real job in 1995, I barely made $20k per year, no perks, living in a crappy apartment, driving a car with speaker wire holding up the muffler, and eating a lot of ramen and hamburger helper. It took time and a lot of hard work to get to where I am now - I didn't get everything (hardly anything actually) right out of the gate.
Tober138: There's truth to that. I've met too many clowns in their late 20's who's only skill is bragging, and they are ticked when they realize that they can't be a VP before they are 30! Unfortunately, there are plenty of people out there that mistake bragging ability for actual talent, so some of these goofballs do end up in positions of some power where their lack of experience and ability can cause real problems.
As for the rest of us, starting "at the bottom" in one's profession isn't a bad thing, though these days the lack of entry-level jobs and the barriers put up that prevent people from moving into different industries within their major makes it really hard to even try the whole "working one's way up" path.
If expecting the same conditions the baby boomers had is entitlement we are guilty. They had affordable college and a good job market, which they destroyed to benefit themselves. When anyone points this out they are labeled entitled.
No generation is any better or worse than any other generation. People behave like people, and have since the caveman days.
The "kids these days are lazy and entitled" argument has been around forever. My grandmother told me the middle aged folks said the same thing when she was a teenager/young adult.
If expecting the same conditions the baby boomers had is entitlement we are guilty. They had affordable college and a good job market, which they destroyed to benefit themselves. When anyone points this out they are labeled entitled.
What a load of crap. You think the babyboomers wanted their kids hanging around the house while the economy gets worse, and their kids get burger flipping jobs with their 4 year degrees that cost big $$$? The cause of this mess was not a generational fault. It was a fault of human nature, mainly greed and shortsightedness. Many, many more contributing factors, most of which were 30 years in the making. You have absolutely no clue, just like the rest of the gum flappers.
Do you think babyboomers are really benefiting by all this? Do you have any idea how many of them are going to be working well into their golden years because retirement is next to impossible for so many? Do you really have any idea what happens when Walmart is the largest employer in this country? Do you think babyboomers really wanted all of this?
And let's discuss how things went 30 years ago. When my father graduated highschool, he began technical college, and worked full time to pay for it, sometimes picking up weekend jobs even. He lived with 4 roommates, working 8 hours a day and took classes at night. He did this for 2 years, and even after he finished, he lived with roommates for another year until my parents married. Some were born with the silver spoon up their rear, just like today. That is not the norm, and it was never the norm.
Going forward 30 years, my dad was an unemployed engineer for 5 years, after the company he was VP of was destroyed by the owner's arrogant (gen X) know nothing son. Eventually it was sold off to some Japanese firm. After 5 years of sitting home waiting for the big $$$ gig to appear, he now services refrigerators at bars and restaurants. You think he's got it made or something? Pull you head out of your behind and realize your struggles are miniscule, and one of millions, if not billions in this world. You've got a lot to learn about suffering squirt.
What a load of crap. You think the babyboomers wanted their kids hanging around the house while the economy gets worse, and their kids get burger flipping jobs with their 4 year degrees that cost big $$$? The cause of this mess was not a generational fault. It was a fault of human nature, mainly greed and shortsightedness. Many, many more contributing factors, most of which were 30 years in the making. You have absolutely no clue, just like the rest of the gum flappers.
Do you think babyboomers are really benefiting by all this? Do you have any idea how many of them are going to be working well into their golden years because retirement is next to impossible for so many? Do you really have any idea what happens when Walmart is the largest employer in this country? Do you think babyboomers really wanted all of this?
And let's discuss how things went 30 years ago. When my father graduated highschool, he began technical college, and worked full time to pay for it, sometimes picking up weekend jobs even. He lived with 4 roommates, working 8 hours a day and took classes at night. He did this for 2 years, and even after he finished, he lived with roommates for another year until my parents married. Some were born with the silver spoon up their rear, just like today. That is not the norm, and it was never the norm.
Going forward 30 years, my dad was an unemployed engineer for 5 years, after the company he was VP of was destroyed by the owner's arrogant (gen X) know nothing son. Eventually it was sold off to some Japanese firm. After 5 years of sitting home waiting for the big $$$ gig to appear, he now services refrigerators at bars and restaurants. You think he's got it made or something? Pull you head out of your behind and realize your struggles are miniscule, and one of millions, if not billions in this world. You've got a lot to learn about suffering squirt.
Yes, some boomers are benefitting. I am not saying every boomer is responsible, but most of the people are responsible are from the boomer generation, and to a lesser extent the preceding one.
They enjoyed all kinds of entitlements that todays youth can only dream of, and as soon as they no longer needed them they cut them because they didnt want to pay for them.
I am glad your father was able to work his way through college, but that is another relic of the past. Even working every second that one is not in class is still not enough to pay for college these days without going into massive debt. College has gone up 300% or so in cost, but wages have actually decreased when you adjust for inflation.
So I am sick of people bashing millennials for having it easy. It is the opposite. We are coming of age in the worst economic crisis since the great depression, in the most politically unstable environment since WWII, with much less entitlements and benefits than former generations, and burdened with massive debt caused by other generations. Yes we have Ipods but that doesnt change the facts.
The Millenials are the victims of the mistakes of past generations, but we are not complaining. Instead we are trying to make the best of it, AND try to fix things, which no other generations seems interested in doing. We are not asking for any thanks, but it would be nice if people stopped calling us lazy while we try to fix their mistakes.
The concept of starting at the bottom and working your way up seems to be a foreign concept.
How many people do you know who started at the bottom, worked their way up through the middle, and made it to the top?
I think it's pretty rare, in both senses: few people who try that route get anywhere but the mid-bottom, and few people at the top got there that way.
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These younger folks doing all the whining seem to have nicer stuff than little ol' me, who works 40-50 hours a week to etch a living. I make plenty more than 25K, and still don't think those kinds of frills fit into the budget. Rent around here is easily $750 (I pay $650 for a simple studio), but no one says you have to start out with your own pad. Roommates are practical for most people starting out. Heck, I've been doing my job for 5 years, and when I moved for work, I lived with a roommate for quite some time. Mostly because I didn't want to sign a lease, but still wanted to be in a decent area. I think the problem is some people simply spend it as fast as they earn it, maybe because they feel it's just the way it's supposed to be. 
