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The trades jobs are still there, no one is training to do them.
The trade jobs are not there. Tradesmen have a higher unemployment rate than the average population and usually amongst the first to be laid off when the economy even sniffs a negative patch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person
Tell a parent that their kid should look at trades rather than college and their next stop is the Principal's office.
Bull, granted, I graduated high school over a decade ago, but at that point, they had no problem filling the vocational parallel school with over 500 students from city high schools pursuing a variety of different trades. A majority of them were in welding, auto mechanics and building trades. Counselors actually actively pushed kids in the bottom 1/3 of the class in to these trades.
Just about everyone I knew from the school never achieved gainful employment in those trades. Some dropped the trade altogether and went to college or did something else.
The trade jobs are not there. Tradesmen have a higher unemployment rate than the average population and usually amongst the first to be laid off when the economy even sniffs a negative patch.
Bull, granted, I graduated high school over a decade ago, but at that point, they had no problem filling the vocational parallel school with over 500 students from city high schools pursuing a variety of different trades. A majority of them were in welding, auto mechanics and building trades. Counselors actually actively pushed kids in the bottom 1/3 of the class in to these trades.
Just about everyone I knew from the school never achieved gainful employment in those trades. Some dropped the trade altogether and went to college or did something else.
In the last decade school systems, especially larger urban ones, have adopted "College For All" and embraced "College Going Culture" semantics. That includes special programs for all students starting in 9th grade (and younger in some places) detailing the college selection process, being forbidden to tell students about non-college options, requiring college materials be placed in all classrooms and bulletin boards be designated "College Corners".
Counselors do not now lay out trade options or even advertise the availibility of vo-tech.
Are you telling me that the kids you know that did trades weren't able to get jobs in Virginia Beach with the massive military presence there and the associated trades needed?
Are you telling me that the kids you know that did trades weren't able to get jobs in Virginia Beach with the massive military presence there and the associated trades needed?
Actually, that is possible if there was a security clearance involved and they couldn't meet the requirements... an admittedly depressing possibility, but one to consider.
Actually, that is possible if there was a security clearance involved and they couldn't meet the requirements... an admittedly depressing possibility, but one to consider.
Yeah, I didn't take that into account but that wouldn't/shouldn't be "just about everyone".
Are you telling me that the kids you know that did trades weren't able to get jobs in Virginia Beach with the massive military presence there and the associated trades needed?
Its not just about getting jobs, its about getting jobs that actually paid the bills.
In most cases after you graduate a trade program, you might be qualified to be an "apprentice", basically you are a helper making close to minimum wage, and you make that for a few years, then you might qualify to be a journeyman, and you make maybe $10 an hour for a few years, and then you might become a master, where you can pass 30k.
I knew quite a few people who chose bagging groceries for $7 an hour instead of tending masonry pans in 105 degree weather for $6 an hour. Can't say I blame them.
Its not just about getting jobs, its about getting jobs that actually paid the bills.
In most cases after you graduate a trade program, you might be qualified to be an "apprentice", basically you are a helper making close to minimum wage, and you make that for a few years, then you might qualify to be a journeyman, and you make maybe $10 an hour for a few years, and then you might become a master, where you can pass 30k.
I knew quite a few people who chose bagging groceries for $7 an hour instead of tending masonry pans in 105 degree weather for $6 an hour. Can't say I blame them.
You know, of course, that apprenticeship programs are, and have been standard, for most if not all trades since, well, since the Middle Ages and guilds.
You know, of course, that apprenticeship programs are, and have been standard, for most if not all trades for, well, since the Middle Ages and guilds.
Good thing I was referring to 1999, not 2010. Construction helpers average about 9.86, laborers 11.52, sounds proportionate to what it was in 1999 given the jump in minimum wage.
If you take a look up your list, retail cashiers make more than construction helpers, so do building cleaning workers, and security guards. Hell, even fast food clerks are comparible, and given the same years of experience, youd probably be making more money in the fast food job track than construction.
There is absolutely no good reason to spend 8-10 years as a bottom feeding construction worker to make $16.42 an hour at the end of the day, and then be faced with overwhelming unemployment, seasonal work that is interupted by rain/snow/heat/cold, etc, and is often job based and not very steady.
As I've said before, welding is the only construction/building trade worth pursuing, because even short training programs often lead to money at least around the total population mean.
Good thing I was referring to 1999, not 2010. Construction helpers average about 9.86, laborers 11.52, sounds proportionate to what it was in 1999 given the jump in minimum wage.
If you take a look up your list, retail cashiers make more than construction helpers, so do building cleaning workers, and security guards. Hell, even fast food clerks are comparible, and given the same years of experience, youd probably be making more money in the fast food job track than construction.
There is absolutely no good reason to spend 8-10 years as a bottom feeding construction worker to make $16.42 an hour at the end of the day, and then be faced with overwhelming unemployment, seasonal work that is interupted by rain/snow/heat/cold, etc, and is often job based and not very steady.
As I've said before, welding is the only construction/building trade worth pursuing, because even short training programs often lead to money at least around the total population mean.
except lets look at reality....
Let's take carpentry. Apprenticeship program for union carpenters is 4 years. As of right now journeyman union carpenters scale in Virginia is 33.54/hr. The first six months as an apprentice one starts off at 40% scale. the next six months they are at 50% scale. it increases until the 4 years is over and then at that point, they are at 100% scale.
The same thing for Union Millwright apprenticeship except scale is 38.62/hr.
And btw I could introduce you to many union carpenters that make 6 figures every year, that would probably disagree fully with your idea that welding is the only trade worth pursuing.
Good thing I was referring to 1999, not 2010. Construction helpers average about 9.86, laborers 11.52, sounds proportionate to what it was in 1999 given the jump in minimum wage.
If you take a look up your list, retail cashiers make more than construction helpers, so do building cleaning workers, and security guards. Hell, even fast food clerks are comparible, and given the same years of experience, youd probably be making more money in the fast food job track than construction.
There is absolutely no good reason to spend 8-10 years as a bottom feeding construction worker to make $16.42 an hour at the end of the day, and then be faced with overwhelming unemployment, seasonal work that is interupted by rain/snow/heat/cold, etc, and is often job based and not very steady.
As I've said before, welding is the only construction/building trade worth pursuing, because even short training programs often lead to money at least around the total population mean.
Let's take carpentry. Apprenticeship program for union carpenters is 4 years. As of right now journeyman union carpenters scale in Virginia is 33.54/hr. The first six months as an apprentice one starts off at 40% scale. the next six months they are at 50% scale. it increases until the 4 years is over and then at that point, they are at 100% scale.
Union carpenter....lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhawkins74
And btw I could introduce you to many union carpenters that make 6 figures every year, that would probably disagree fully with your idea that welding is the only trade worth pursuing.
Only 14% of construction workers are unionized, most of them in the northeast.
You have a real argument?
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