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My parents forced me into college. I don't it's the right move to force your child into college right after they graduate; I would have like to have been given some time to really plan things out because college was not on the list.
This is a great thread, with lot's of smart and insightful posts... kind of gives one hope for the future.
Having said that, I am sending my kids to college. It is horribly expensive, a scam if you will, which is probably common knowledge on this thread. I'm silently wondering if taking the college savings and gifting the money to my young adults to build businesses of their own wouldn't be the wiser course, given all we know about college costs and the job market waiting for newly-minted degree holders.
In response to a couple of comments, outsourcing and hiring low-cost guest workers is a rampant practice in my field and many other white collar pursuits as well. It has resulted in huge decreases in compensation for experienced professionals. As for Obama, you can fool some of the people all of the time, but can he really fool all of the people all of the time? As president he has done so little for job growth, it's pathetic. He is now championing the immigration cause and liberalization of guest-worker visas, which will further deteriorate the job market for US citizens.
Before you make such a reckless uninformed decision, maybe you should research what percentages of small business fail and who's owners then lose everything, many times their retirements, money they have borrowed from family/friends, and their homes. I already know. I learned that in college.
Maybe you should also research the unemployment rate for college graduates and average income. Just maybe you should so some actual research based on facts and not a message board since college is such a "scam".
The same people that claim college is a scam are the same people who are protesting on the streets for Occupy movements whining about why everyone makes more than them! Its because they were to stupid and stubborn to go to college and educate themselves. Its because they continue to get their life advice from other uninformed bitter posters on message boards who then want to blame everyone else in the world on their failures.
My parents forced me into college. I don't it's the right move to force your child into college right after they graduate; I would have like to have been given some time to really plan things out because college was not on the list.
If you are 18 years or older, you can choose to do what you wish as long as you aren't living in your parents' home or if your parents aren't supporting you.
You can choose to get a job and an apartment and pay for it and move out. Make sure you get insurance also and have transportation to get to/from work.
Start planning your career now. Decide what is the best major for you so you can get a job as soon as you graduate and get your own apartment or home.
You are lucky your parents sent you to school rather than telling you to move out. They want you to do well. Make them proud. Make yourself proud.
Realize that you are better off with a college degree versus no college degree. Focus on good grades and a major that has job opportunities.
If you cannot handle school, try to get a job with the government so you can move up the career ladder. Or get a job with a Fortune 500 company. However, once you have a degree, the first job at the government or Fortune 500 company is usually going to pay a lot more and be a higher grade due to the degree.
Yes but did you want to be a machinist since childhood? Many of us, in order to pursue the professions we have dreamed about since being kids (teacher, pilot, lawyer, judge, veterinarian, author, editor, reporter, doctor, nurse, etc.) because we were encouraged by parents/teachers to follow our dreams had to go to college at a minimum to make these things happen.
So, yeah it's not about the money you make. It's whether or not you are working in the profession/occupation that you had your heart set on your whole life. Money comes and money goes...but working an entire lifetime in a job that is not your passion? That would be true misery.
I dreamed of being a MLB player as a child... As do a lot of kids. I never made it past high school ball unfortunately.
One thing I didn't like was going to class. I graduated a B student... Just barely. Going to college wasn't something I wanted to do at the time... So after a few years of living off mom I got a job in the gutters of the manufacturing industry back in 1997 making $5.85 an hour.
In 2001 I went from manual to CNC. I always had a knack for computers and thought the whole thing was neat. Over the years I've had a hand in the marine industry... automotive... heavy equipment... and now aerospace.
Just yesterday I was working on some tool steel machining it into gears that drive the wing flaps on the 787. It's cool stuff and I feel like I'm watching that show "How it's made." I take pride in my work and wake up every day looking forward to going in. It's kinda cool to see a jet fly overhead and say "hey I helped make that."
Is it my life's dream? No... But I can think of a lot worse jobs.
I dreamed of being a MLB player as a child... As do a lot of kids. I never made it past high school ball unfortunately.
One thing I didn't like was going to class. I graduated a B student... Just barely. Going to college wasn't something I wanted to do at the time... So after a few years of living off mom I got a job in the gutters of the manufacturing industry back in 1997 making $5.85 an hour.
In 2001 I went from manual to CNC. I always had a knack for computers and thought the whole thing was neat. Over the years I've had a hand in the marine industry... automotive... heavy equipment... and now aerospace.
Just yesterday I was working on some tool steel machining it into gears that drive the wing flaps on the 787. It's cool stuff and I feel like I'm watching that show "How it's made." I take pride in my work and wake up every day looking forward to going in. It's kinda cool to see a jet fly overhead and say "hey I helped make that."
Is it my life's dream? No... But I can think of a lot worse jobs.
That is one thing people are overlooking. You said that you "wake up looking forward to going in." Some people look their whole lives for this. If a college degree won't get you that job, then don't do it.
The degree doesn't matter as much as one may think. You should want to learn waht your going to school for. However if your education is valued by the employers regardless of how you "market" yourself, wasted time imo.
If you can't apply what you learned in college, then what good was the education? I've put off going to college for a while, and only now considering it. I've been in a few classes and you just sit there listening to someone talk and I never found anything of real relevance.
College gives you the knowledge, but doesn't seem to teach you how to use it. Instead they make you take another class and let the student try to connect the dots, but not everyone knows how to put it together. Mom and Dad made it seem like college was payment for the ticket to the good life. lol
If you are 18 years or older, you can choose to do what you wish as long as you aren't living in your parents' home or if your parents aren't supporting you.
You can choose to get a job and an apartment and pay for it and move out. Make sure you get insurance also and have transportation to get to/from work.
Start planning your career now. Decide what is the best major for you so you can get a job as soon as you graduate and get your own apartment or home.
You are lucky your parents sent you to school rather than telling you to move out. They want you to do well. Make them proud. Make yourself proud.
Realize that you are better off with a college degree versus no college degree. Focus on good grades and a major that has job opportunities.
If you cannot handle school, try to get a job with the government so you can move up the career ladder. Or get a job with a Fortune 500 company. However, once you have a degree, the first job at the government or Fortune 500 company is usually going to pay a lot more and be a higher grade due to the degree.
True, but it's hard to defy or goes against your parents. I succumbed to the pressure and now dealing with it.
Oh and I was moving out anyways. I had no intentions of remaining at home. I already had money and a job to get my own place and pay bills/rent. I just decided to go to college because it meant a lot to them.
My parents forced me into college. I don't it's the right move to force your child into college right after they graduate; I would have like to have been given some time to really plan things out because college was not on the list.
After you are 18, your parents cannot force you to do ANYTHING. They can nag you and put guilt trips on you, but that's all that they can do.
Trust me, I've had to put my foot down in the past and tell my parents "no, I'm going to do this my way."
I made 60k in 2012 and expect 75k this year. It's not really what you make however... It's what you have going out that matters.
What I do have is 15 years experience in machining... What I don't have is kids.. An ex-wife... Or student loan debt... Or any debt for that matter except for a $2800 balance on my car loan. No point in paying it off because I've paid 90% of the interest already and wouldn't save anything.
I got a couple friends paying $750 a month on student loans and they make less than I do.
I don't regret not going to college.
I've been in this trade for about 4 years now. Started on manual machines, went on to CNCs, went on to Swiss turning, and now working in tool/die/prototype. Made 28K at 18, saw some layoffs, took some time off to go to college, but got back into it after the rebound. Last year, I worked a fair bit of OT and brought home 60K. I live comfortably these days on about 50K. If I wanted more, I would work some OT, but I live within my means. Not a luxurious income, but more than many of my friends with college degrees earn. My income has not peaked, and they are just starting their careers now, so it remains to be seen how wise my decision was to skip college.
One nice thing is I got paid to learn my trade. No debt, I've always bought everything in cash, and I never have had to worry about money or my financial future. If in the future, a college degree was the end all, be all, I could easily afford to quit working for 2 years to finish a supply chain management degree. Or, I could apply my experience in manufacturing and take 3 1/2 years to earn an engineering degree. At this point however, there is no point. In every shop I've ever worked, the engineers were mostly HS grad machinists. The few college grad engineers I met lacked the practical knowledge involved in making chips and were usually a little bitter that us machinists earned more at the end of the year (admittedly due to our OT).
One thing people don't like about trades though is you are paid what you are worth. There are a lot of bitter tradesman that whine about their low incomes. Unfortunately, you only get in return what you put in. If you're not going to make the effort, your wage/salary will reflect this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Sleuth
Yes but did you want to be a machinist since childhood?
I believe if more kids had exposure to the trades, including the machining trade, they would dream of working in these occupations at a young age. I was lucky because I came from a family of tool makers and machinists. Their garages were packed full of old machinery that captured my interest. I spent many weekends in my uncles garage making useful items with old manual equipment. I even have some tools that I made when I was 14 that I still use such as 1-2-3 blocks, angle plates, vices, and so on.
When I was in HS, I took machine shop class, which was often seen as the class for the losers and stoners. While they were busy making drug paraphernalia, I was making projects that were used as display pieces for the machining program. Unfortunately, that program was closed down when I finished HS, so that means fewer kids are going to learn about this trade. More kids sucking down federal loans to go to college, and fewer kids entering the workforce after HS and paying taxes.
Sorry, but for generations, we had some kids that went for higher education, and some that went into other occupations. We were doing fine all those years, I don't see why this had to change. All of my friends that went into the manufacturing trades after HS are working and paying taxes right now. I can't say the same for all of my friends that graduated from college.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman07
The same people that claim college is a scam are the same people who are protesting on the streets for Occupy movements whining about why everyone makes more than them! Its because they were to stupid and stubborn to go to college and educate themselves. Its because they continue to get their life advice from other uninformed bitter posters on message boards who then want to blame everyone else in the world on their failures.
Actually, those protests were packed with college graduates whining about the burden of their college loans (that no one forced them to take). In life, their are winners and losers. A college degree does not determine where you will fall, and apparently some young folks thought otherwise. I didn't have time to protest, I was too busy making a living. I also noticed many of those organizers were college graduates, with apparently nothing better to do.
But at any rate, whose bitter exactly? All I see are a bunch of posters expressing their opinions. My opinion is not everyone needs to go to college. If everyone went to college, you would still need burger flippers, unskilled laborers, "sandwich artisans", and so on. We still live in a free market dictated by supply and demand. Overwhelming the market with an ever increasing supply of college graduates will not produce more college graduate level jobs. Remember, those too are vulnerable to offshoring. Plenty of IT jobs have migrated to cheaper labor nations, especially English speaking nations like India.
Since you're such a smart college graduate though, what happens when the supply of something increases but the demand remains unchanged??? A college degree is far from worthless, but certainly there is an argument to be made that it's worth less.
There was also a video of several college students storming a Chase branch in New York. Their message? Their students loans should be forgiven because they are special, the free market is evil, life is unfair, their "investments" aren't paying off... Not my problem, and I shouldn't be required to subsidize some else's future to have an opportunity I couldn't afford at 18.
Feel free to search for videos from the many occupy Wallstreet rallies that took place on COLLEGE CAMPUSES.
True, but it's hard to defy or goes against your parents. I succumbed to the pressure and now dealing with it.
Oh and I was moving out anyways. I had no intentions of remaining at home. I already had money and a job to get my own place and pay bills/rent. I just decided to go to college because it meant a lot to them.
I dealt with the same thing from my parents, school counselors, other family, etc. They were really worried that I wasn't going to amount to anything without a college degree. One thing my dad told me a year ago though that made up for all the pressure and BS... "You did it your way, and you did a damn good job of it". Growing up, he preached the importance of a college degree. Nowadays, he apparently has made a complete change in thinking and complains about all the young folks who aren't willing to enter non professional, less desirable occupations.
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