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Old 03-25-2013, 11:24 AM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,207,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfunkle524 View Post
Then why are so many companies reporting record profits with income remaining stagnant? If Americans are not producing better output then profits should be tracking wages.
Income/GDP is the same now as it ever has been. Income is not stagnant. Also, companies are holding onto cash because government policies and fed action is creating enough uncertainty about the future that current investment in growth is not a good business decision.

Quote:
I think the frustration comes from the many workers who are proving themselves each and every day without any sort of (material) recognition. There are so many people out there working their buns off to prove they are worthy of an opportunity that their company refuses to provide. Sure there are opportunities, but hard work and results don't really cut it at an increasing number of companies any more.
Then quit and find a new job...the only job security that should exist is being better than the guy working next to you.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,253 posts, read 23,742,275 times
Reputation: 38639
Quote:
Originally Posted by soanchorless View Post
"If you took the minimum wage from 1960 and indexed it for workers’ gains in productivity, it would be $22 an hour today. And why shouldn’t employees reap the benefits of their own improved labor practices?, she asked at the hearing, rhetorically."

$22 minimum wage: Could it pass Congress? (+video) - CSMonitor.com
WA state has one of the highest minimum wages. Everything there is ridiculously expensive.

FL, TX, ME do not have high minimum wages in comparison. Things are much, much cheaper. I'm just NOW starting to see the prices, 10 years later, that I saw in WA state when I left.

A higher minimum wage only means that prices will go up which means your dollars don't go any further than they do now.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,823 posts, read 24,913,395 times
Reputation: 28520
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
I know enough working profession jobs, making excellent salaries, with annual bonuses. My godson, who is getting his MBA in May, and is already working at a good professional job with a multi-national at a fine salary, is interviewing with 2 more corps this week..both huge..and in both cases, he did not begin the process. He was solicited by mgmt recruiting firms.

He'll be getting his MBA with NO debt. 100% scholarships through both his bachelors and MBA.

He has many classmates who are already working at professional jobs, earning in most cases, well above the US median for college grads.
Glad to hear of his success. Wish him and his classmates all the best. You still have not addressed the declining numbers of tech and engineering jobs. Not everyone can do "business" for a living. I sure wouldn't cut it in an environment requiring a suit, tie, a fake smile and being tied to a desk all day. I would "take myself out of the equation" before I commit to such a career.

The gains have all been in a select few business disciplines it seems, along with health care, which no longer plays by the rules of the free market. Everything else being created anymore job wise seems to be low skill and low paying. And really, we can't create enough business jobs to host the entire workforce.

We are far more productive these days. That's a good thing. All the gains have gone to the top, and to the select few white collar workers who have taken all the credit for someone elses work. Really, what is happening is that increased productivity means you don't need as many engineers and other skilled workers to get the same output. As jobs decline, supply will trump demand and wages will continue to stagnate/decline. Management will continue to chip away at wages/salaries/bennies, because after all, we have to remain "competitive"... At this point, we are just racing ourselves to the bottom. Unfortunately, there are no winners in this race... Only more Obama stamps, Obama phones, and Obama drones. Prosperity???
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,823 posts, read 24,913,395 times
Reputation: 28520
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Income/GDP is the same now as it ever has been. Income is not stagnant. Also, companies are holding onto cash because government policies and fed action is creating enough uncertainty about the future that current investment in growth is not a good business decision.



Then quit and find a new job...the only job security that should exist is being better than the guy working next to you.
Companies are holding on to cash because demand does not justify increased investment. The government has always been a hurdle. It's the same just about anywhere. In fact, our government's policies are far less of a challenge than in Europe, Canada, etc. If you would like to allow companies to dump toxic waste in the rivers and such, go to China.

Income has been stagnant in many occupations. UPS pays the same entry level wage as they were in 1990. Many engineering disciplines are paying paltry wages/salaries that are on par with 1990. Companies more than ever are requiring workers to pay toward their health insurance, etc. We've got millions of illegals driving up the cost of health care for citizens by using the emergency room for the common cold or a regular checkup. This expense is being passed on to the business community and other consumers.

You can quit and find a new job all you like. Industries have wage/salary ranges. Very difficult for a business to pay outside of that range. Even if believe you are "worth more", your worth is dependent on your output, and the type of output. Some industries just don't pay much, and there's nothing you can do to change that. Want more money? Pick a different industry to work in. Shuffling paper money pays more these days than honest work, and there's not much anyone can do to change that.
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:13 AM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,972,963 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Glad to hear of his success. Wish him and his classmates all the best. You still have not addressed the declining numbers of tech and engineering jobs. Not everyone can do "business" for a living. I sure wouldn't cut it in an environment requiring a suit, tie, a fake smile and being tied to a desk all day. I would "take myself out of the equation" before I commit to such a career.

The gains have all been in a select few business disciplines it seems, along with health care, which no longer plays by the rules of the free market. Everything else being created anymore job wise seems to be low skill and low paying. And really, we can't create enough business jobs to host the entire workforce.

We are far more productive these days. That's a good thing. All the gains have gone to the top, and to the select few white collar workers who have taken all the credit for someone elses work. Really, what is happening is that increased productivity means you don't need as many engineers and other skilled workers to get the same output. As jobs decline, supply will trump demand and wages will continue to stagnate/decline. Management will continue to chip away at wages/salaries/bennies, because after all, we have to remain "competitive"... At this point, we are just racing ourselves to the bottom. Unfortunately, there are no winners in this race... Only more Obama stamps, Obama phones, and Obama drones. Prosperity???
Engineering and tech are not at their peak, but they also are more stagnant than declining now. Productivity still has not peaked-that is a very good thing, as the most productive will be the ones who retain or grow market share.

There are more people analyzing than ever, and they are not taking credit for others work. Truthfully, businesses are operating superbly, operating profits are terrific, and most of the credit belongs with the suits who have figured out how to utilize automation and robotics to vastly increase throughout.

I am well aware those on the shop floor hate that stuff, but the job of the suits is to drive profits, not headcount.

That is not a race to the bottom, as professional bonuses at our corp, our suppliers, our customers ..are better than ever. That is not a select few. We usually distribute bonus checks to a double digit percentage of every facilities professional staff.

You like shop work, and that's fine, but the fact the suits are focused on prfits, not driving shop headcount obviously ruffles your feathers. They need to keep their focus squarely on the bottom line.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:41 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,823 posts, read 24,913,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Truthfully, businesses are operating superbly, operating profits are terrific, and most of the credit belongs with the suits who have figured out how to utilize automation and robotics to vastly increase throughout.
Except, the suits didn't figure out how to utilize automation and robotics. The engineers did. Didn't seem to help their bottom line, and they seem to be the first ones seeing the layoff notices these days.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Woodinville
3,184 posts, read 4,847,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Except, the suits didn't figure out how to utilize automation and robotics. The engineers did. Didn't seem to help their bottom line, and they seem to be the first ones seeing the layoff notices these days.
That's an important point. An executive that tells an engineering team in his department to "make this cheaper now!!" gets his bonus for the brilliant idea of telling his engineers to make it cheaper. The engineers, who are often way overworked and paid little compared to their contribution, get little in the way of bonuses and raises. In fact bonuses and substantial raises are becoming exceedingly rare among the workers who create value for the company.

The shift in corporate thinking has been disturbing over the past decade. Companies only care about obtaining profits, not creating value. It has become an obsession. Once upon a time, companies would focus on creating value and then reap the profit. This creates a strong long-term strategy. Now, however, companies are all about straining value to obtain greater profit. Instant gratification in a "gotta have it now" society. It has been working, but only when workers are desperate for work. There's only so much revenue to extract from the market when wages aren't increasing.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:26 AM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,207,220 times
Reputation: 5481
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Companies are holding on to cash because demand does not justify increased investment. The government has always been a hurdle. It's the same just about anywhere. In fact, our government's policies are far less of a challenge than in Europe, Canada, etc. If you would like to allow companies to dump toxic waste in the rivers and such, go to China.

Income has been stagnant in many occupations. UPS pays the same entry level wage as they were in 1990. Many engineering disciplines are paying paltry wages/salaries that are on par with 1990. Companies more than ever are requiring workers to pay toward their health insurance, etc. We've got millions of illegals driving up the cost of health care for citizens by using the emergency room for the common cold or a regular checkup. This expense is being passed on to the business community and other consumers.

You can quit and find a new job all you like. Industries have wage/salary ranges. Very difficult for a business to pay outside of that range. Even if believe you are "worth more", your worth is dependent on your output, and the type of output. Some industries just don't pay much, and there's nothing you can do to change that. Want more money? Pick a different industry to work in. Shuffling paper money pays more these days than honest work, and there's not much anyone can do to change that.
I agree with everything but the last sentence. I am not sure what you mean by 'honest work'. In most cases 'shuffling paper' adds much much value to a company than anything else. That is the benefit of living in a technological age instead of an industrial era.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:53 AM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,972,963 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Except, the suits didn't figure out how to utilize automation and robotics. The engineers did. Didn't seem to help their bottom line, and they seem to be the first ones seeing the layoff notices these days.
Engineers are part of the suits-part of the professional organization. At one Fortune 500 I worked at, an engineer to keep his job needed to either find cost savings or come up with new product concepts every year at least equal to 2x his salary and benefits.

Througfh their efforts, the bottom line soared, and their gross pay due to bonuses also hit record highs. A win-win for both corp and engineer.

I understand why the shop floor is not , but it doesn't change the facts.

Last edited by bobtn; 03-26-2013 at 10:04 AM..
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:58 AM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,972,963 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfunkle524 View Post
That's an important point. An executive that tells an engineering team in his department to "make this cheaper now!!" gets his bonus for the brilliant idea of telling his engineers to make it cheaper. The engineers, who are often way overworked and paid little compared to their contribution, get little in the way of bonuses and raises. In fact bonuses and substantial raises are becoming exceedingly rare among the workers who create value for the company.
Our engineers are getting bonuses, especially when they cut costs, and more often than not, that means labor costs per unit. At most of our facilities, engineers are paid more (assuming each has the same level degree) than comparable staff in other departments.

You have the process backwards, as normally, they tell mgmt/execs what products can be made more efficiently, it is not a directive coming down, but a "We can do this with a robot" being told up the food chain..followed by the "investment costs X thousand dollars".
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