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I'm a millennial who graduated less than 10 years ago. I took one art class in high school. I also took 4 years of English, 4 years of science, and 3 years of math. The schools give you the tools you need to pass something as simple as the ASVAB, but students don't care to utilize those tools. Many students just don't care about learning. The only thing schools are at fault for is letting these students graduate. Many students and their parents will argue to have them put in lab or remedial classes, which are halfway between special ed and regular classes. This exempts them from having to pass the state's standardized test before graduating.
I currently teach at a career school where many of my students struggle with reading, writing, and math. These students aren't much younger than me, so I know not to blame the schools for their inabilities. These students are just plain lazy, which is indicative of how they were in high school. Some of them couldn't even hack it at a community college and dropped out. They have shown no interest in learning; all they care about is earning a credential that will help them get a better paying job. The hard reality is that most of them won't even be able to pass a police department's written test.
Sorry, but I do blame the high school education industry. I especially fault the constant high school education industry propaganda that the only viable option is to get a bachelor's degree, and anything other than that is not an option at all.
Whenever I see anything that asserts a binary choice of degree versus nothing, I know I'm looking at high school education industry propaganda. Now, if I see a comparison of bachelor's degree versus technical certificate, then I'll pay attention. But you never see that comparison from the education industry.
Sure, there are exceptional students who don't fall prey to the high school educational industry propaganda, but those are the exception. Two exceptions, for instance, are two of my daughter's high school classmates. She went to the "laboratory school" sponsored by the local state university--which specializes in teacher education, so it's a number-one "education industry" university. That high school made a point of teaching "if you don't get a bachelor's degree, you're life will be crap."
But these two boys were both the sons of extremely high-end contractors in town, and they intended to go into their fathers' businesses. So they both crafted their high school classes to optimize themselves for the local community college for associated degrees in both building science and small business ownership. They may later get bachelor's degrees...but they want what they need to run their fathers' businesses first.
Most kids don't know anything but the high school education industry propaganda: Get a bachelor's degree and there is no other option.
But the fact is, only 30% of kids ever get a bachelor's degree. Most of that remaining 70% already know by the 10th grade that they don't want a life that requires a bachelor's degree. We can call them "lazy," but that doesn't solve the problem, if we even want to call that a problem (I don't, and I'll explain why it's not a real problem in a moment).
If we look at this in simple market terms, in the overall group of high school kids, we have 30% in the market for a bachelor's degree and 70% who are not in the market for bachelor's degree. But the high school education industry only caters to the 30% that is in the market for college. It does not offer a viable program for the non-bachelor's degree market. It doesn't even acknowledge the existence of a non-bachelor's degree market.
Back in the 90s, the governor of Hawaii at the time took a careful look at Hawaii industry, took a careful look at what Hawaii public schools were offering, and concluded publicly and frankly, "Our schools are a waste of time for most of our students, and the kids know it." Why? Because the curriculum did not match their education with real Hawaii industry.
And the kids know that. They don't know what their real options are because nobody counsels them in all their options, but kids aren't stupid. They see the available jobs, and they conclude early that the classes they're sitting in have no relevance to the jobs they see.
So they tune out or worse, drop out. You can convince them that they need the diploma, but you can't convince them that they actually need to learn Charles Dickens.
Would it be a problem for the high school education industry to cater to the non-bachelor degree market? No, that's not a problem.
It's not a problem because society doesn't really need that many bachelor degree holders, especially not in non-STEM disciplines. If the majority of that 70% is going into non-STEM studies, they're not only wasting their time, they're also wasting their money. At that point, college is a scam--taking four years of a young person's life, $80,000 of his money, and giving him a piece of paper that in today's economy (which is not the economy we Boomers started in) may never pay off. He might have been better off borrowing $80,000 to spend on Powerball tickets.
What society does need out of high school is a whole lot of kids who are ready for technical training. Kids who are tack-sharp in algebra and plane geometry, top-notch in comprehension of technical written material, top-notch in business and technical writing, business finances, business law. Keen in applied sciences: Computer coding, electric, electronic, mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic. They need to be keen in applied life sciences.
I'm not talking about offering a couple of classes of shop or auto mechanics. I'm talking about a robust and complete "technical preparation" curriculum. The kids from such a curriculum need to be ready to walk into any secondary technical training program and take it in stride.
A 70/30 split between kids going for technical training and kids going for their bachelor's degree is about right for society. Kids are already making that split themselves. But the high school education industry is failing in meeting the needs not only of the kids but also of society by refusing to acknowledge anything except the 30% minority.
What about as far as listing military personnel as references? Is it legal for the hiring official to call them to see what type of employee their applicant is?
You can call a reference, but references generally are not being checked until you are being offered the job, or occasionally before the second round of interviews. And HR calls the references, not the hiring manager.
(Because, for one, it would be a nightmare if the reference told the hiring manager that the person had a disability discharge.)
The biggest problem I have seen for people coming out of the military is that they tend to get pigeonholed while in the military. They had a talent for mapping, so instead of getting training in geography and geographic information systems and doing tons of ad hoc analysis and learning industry standard software and langauges, they were put on a proprietary chart making software and ground out the same set of 500 charts for six years.
They might be really good at making those charts, but I can hire someone with an AA for $24k/year to do that type of task.
The people who actually get the military assignments that build valuable work experience are the people who came into the military with advanced degrees and/or existing work experience who would have no trouble finding a non-military job anyway. They get paid extremely well when they come out of the military (clearances pay a significant role), but they would get paid extremely well without their military experience too.
No, it's a combination of federal and state laws (e.g. you cannot ask about discharge at all because of the ADA, another law forbids asking about crimes related to less than honorable discharge). I work for a government agency, so we stick to the letter of the law on this. Private employers could probably get away with it, but are technically breaking the law.
DD 214 documents must be used for certain enumerated purposes, such as obtaining veteran's benefits, and employment decisions is not one of them (plus they contain medical records). We can only use them for background checks after a conditional employment offer has been extended.
That seems strange. I'm applying for home loans, and my prospective mortgage lenders can certainly ask for my DD-214 and much more. So can any non-profit organization that I might want to join. So can any university. I find it difficult to believe that a business cannot get the DD-214--it's purpose is to provide to civilian organizations a recap of the serviceman's career.
Qualification: There are eight "copies" of the DD-214 and they contain different sets of information. "Copy 1" and "Copy 4" are given to the member. The information in Copy 1 and Copy 4 actually becomes public record after a period of time and will then be accessible to everyone.
If you work for a government organization, you may be seeing one of the other six copies that contains information that will never become public record--and yes, there will be additional restrictions on those.
I see this in Wikipedia:
Quote:
DD Form 214 is commonly used by various government agencies, chief among them the Department of Veterans Affairs, to secure veteran benefits, and may be requested by employers should a person indicate he or she has served in the military.
....
There are two versions of the DD Form 214, usually referred to simply as "short" (edited) and "long" (unedited) copies. The edited, or "short" copy omits a great deal of information, chiefly the characterization of service and reason for discharge, thus the unedited ("long") copy is generally desired by veterans' organizations, employers, and law enforcement agencies alike.
Now, you can infer all those other matters from the DD-214. I'll be frank: I would not hire anyone with a discharge in "less than honorable conditions." No, you can't ask a job applicant the specifics about it, but getting an honorable discharge is so simple that I'd be leery of someone who did not achieve it.
The biggest problem I have seen for people coming out of the military is that they tend to get pigeonholed while in the military. They had a talent for mapping, so instead of getting training in geography and geographic information systems and doing tons of ad hoc analysis and learning industry standard software and langauges, they were put on a proprietary chart making software and ground out the same set of 500 charts for six years.
Happens to civilians all the time.
Quote:
They might be really good at making those charts, but I can hire someone with an AA for $24k/year to do that type of task.
The people who actually get the military assignments that build valuable work experience are the people who came into the military with advanced degrees and/or existing work experience who would have no trouble finding a non-military job anyway.
I'd disagree with regard to servicemembers who had military occupations with direct civilian counterparts.
Quote:
They get paid extremely well when they come out of the military (clearances pay a significant role), but they would get paid extremely well without their military experience too.
A TOP SECRET clearance is worth $100,000 to many civilian companies. I had this specific conversation with Lockheed:
Lockheed Rep: "We want to hire you as a programmer."
Me: "I don't know how to program."
Lockheed: "You already have a TOP SECRET clearance. It costs us $100,000 to get a TOP SECRET clearance for a programmer. It only costs us $20,000 to train you to program."
Yes, we get the long copy of the DD214, not the short copy. We cannot use the long copy in hiring decisions before a conditional offer is made. I'm not sure I have seen a short copy, so I'm not sure if the information on it would do much good beyond the benefits you already get from listing your service on a resume (which is really the proper place to list your honors anyway). Maybe vets really just need some good career counseling; I even wonder if some of them are assuming that we are looking at the long copy dd214 when we hire and omitting that info from their resumes.
There are tons of veterans with clearances still looking to get employed (I know a few now that are looking right now), that have clearances. I could not even find employment when I got out and I had TS SCI.
A TOP SECRET clearance is worth $100,000 to many civilian companies. I had this specific conversation with Lockheed:
Lockheed Rep: "We want to hire you as a programmer."
Me: "I don't know how to program."
Lockheed: "You already have a TOP SECRET clearance. It costs us $100,000 to get a TOP SECRET clearance for a programmer. It only costs us $20,000 to train you to program."
Exactly! I adjunct teach at WUSTL occasionally, and at least half of every class is defense contractor employees whose employers are perfectly willing to shell out tens of thousands of dollars to get them training because it is much cheaper than hiring someone already trained and getting them a clearance.
There are tons of veterans with clearances still looking to get employed (I know a few now that are looking right now), that have clearances. I could not even find employment when I got out and I had TS SCI.
You have to move to where the agencies/contractors are located. They don't like recruiting outside their region, and they tend to poach off each other (and neighboring non-defense employers) constantly. Ideally this is not in the DC area so that cost of living doesn't kill you.
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