Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
After WHOSE taxes? You do realize that the after-tax amount will not be the same for all people, right?
After state income and federal taxes… I should've said "the take-home pay is…"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlguy39
I used to live in Atlanta and miss it so much. Been in Oklahoma a year. Yeah, you probably don't have a full understanding of how much money you need to live on just yet. I know when I was in college, I had no clue what it really took to get ahead financially, or even how much I needed for the basics. Of course, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about and you're older and in college. You're in poverty now, so of course it seems like a lot.
Lol, my parents pay for everything. I'm a typical Millennial (I'm only 19). I plan on moving to Texas after school. In Texas, the starting salary for bilingual speech-language pathologists, which is what I'm studying (and I speak Spanish) is about $90k in an urban area and $60k in a rural area. In ATL, it's about $70k in an urban area, and $60k in a rural area. SLPs are in high-demand everywhere, especially bilinguals like myself.
"The rich stay that way because they live like they are poor.
The poor stay that way because they live like they are rich."
Not sure who said it but I saw it on Facebook. LOL
Still the truth holds that if you spend all your money and with many even more money than they make, you will always be poor. Even a guy making $25,000 a year that can save is much better than a guy making $100,000 that can not save. My family makes it on over $100,000 but we have little debt and own our cars. Our net worth grows each year. We also eat a lot of beans and rice. Then again my wife is Mexican so we know how to eat for less and good food to boot.
What ever you do and with how much you make, save save save. Take part in an employer based retirement plan and work toward maxing it out. In as little as 5 years you could be at the maximum just from using your increase in income.
Save for a home over other items. I have had other items and not a home. Now we have a home and have slowly gotten rid of other items that we don't need and I am talking a boat, airplane, an older Porsche, Our focus now is in getting rich and stuff can keep you from doing that. Even when you own stuff it costs you to keep it. Better to get rid of it and keep the money.
If you are not happy with what you are doing or how much you are making, change all of that. You don't have to stay in the position that you are in. You can change. It may take time to do this but so what. In 5 years will you be doing the same thing that you are doing now or could you take the next 5 years to change where you are and move into a better position in life? I did it and everyone else that has done it knows that anyone can do it. Why not be the guy or girl 5 years from now that shares your journey to success.
Like I said before, $100,000 doesn't offer you "a lot" of buying power, but it is still very hard to find someone to pay you $100,000 or more per year.
The people with the money and power want to pay you as little as possible so they have more for themselves.
So true. 100,000 per year is solidly middle class in most areas ~ yet jobs paying 100K are not exactly plentiful. Obviously when you look at median household income - most people make far, far less.
I'm not sure what that says about getting into and staying in the middle Class - but it doesn't seem to bode well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Roses
$100,000? It's relative. When we were newlyweds in the 60s we thought we'd be on easy street if we could ever make $20,000 a year combined. That figure kept moving.
Haha! Right out of college - I thought I'd be living high on the hog if I could make $1000 per month. I learned pretty quickly that was not the case. Yes, the goal posts kept moving. And, up until the last 10 years or so I felt like I did pretty well. NOW, I feel like I'm hanging by a THREAD into the middle class.
Then again, I have a kid in college and my wages have remained stagnant for a long, long time. A 52 year old female, no matter how well she 'keeps herself up' is NOT prime promotion material in my corporation. I stepped down from my management position when my son was in 4th or 5th grade to take a position with more . . flexibility. I wanted to volunteer in the school and do all those things that other mothers were doing. I am happy that I did all that but now . . I'm stuck . . slowly sliding down the ladder and out of the middle class.
Thanks for letting me vent!
Interesting thread. I've enjoyed reading all the responses.
Surprisingly, no. It was an Investment job. Oklahoma City is kind of booming. Unfortunately, it was a huge culture shock and not where I want to be long term.
Went to Northern Illinois and have a degree in Business Administration. I work in the e-commerce field. Pretty lucrative right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell
Stocks are inflated. Long term bonds are going to crash as soon as the Fed ends QE3. Short term, high yield bonds are good. Offshore bonds are good. I wouldn't be eager to put much into stocks right now unless you are willing to buy high and sell low, or hold for a very long time. At 25, you have time. Just hold at least 6 months income in liquid cash as a defensive measure, so you aren't forced to cash out in the next crash. Yes, there will be one. Plan for it.
Somewhere in your home you should have between $500 and $1000 in folding green in case of natural disaster that brings down the power grid. Plastic won't work if the lights are off. All areas are subject to natural disasters, be it wind, flood, ice, earthquake or just a bad switch someplace.
My investment money isn't all tied up into a bunch of separate stocks. Its actually mostly in a single stock with a company I know very well and work with everyday. It is an ex employer too. I don't have cash just laying around the house, but that is so very doomsdayish that I don't know if I trust doing that right now. Especially with 5 roommates. However, I always have a full tank of gas and a mom/dad/sisters house to go to if something crazy like that ever happens.
100k places an individual earner in the top 6-7% of earners in the country while a household income of 100k places the household in the top 20% of households in the country. Take that as you will..
There are no set criteria to distinguish rich, luxury, or class. Everything is relative, my definition of "rich" or "well off" is probably different from someone else's.
I just said, that there's very little meaningful middleclass left and %60 percent of this country is working poor to working class now. That's my take and I'm sticking to it.
Agreed. When I was making $60k and my wife $50k with no kids, we had a large, newer home, 3 cars, and plenty of money to go out whenever we wanted. This is in the Dallas area.
I'm in my mid 30's. Only a handful of the people I grew up with are making 6 figures. One is a Dr, one has an MBA from SMU and is still paying off student loans, a couple others got into IT fields in their infancy and now are IT managers/directors, etc.
Statistically, only 20% of households make over 100k a year. For single earners, it's obviously even less. What this information means however, is that with a 100k income, what you can buy/afford is decidedly middle class. And if a 100k household income is middle class, and only 1 in 5 households is at that level or higher... It's easy to see why the middle class is shrinking and the gap between poor and rich widening.
"I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire,... The man that controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire. And I control the money supply"
Baron Nathan Mayer Rothschild, of the Rothschild international banking cartel
"From reading the posts, perhaps, the first thing to do, in order to come up with a solution, is identify exactly what "income inequity" is.
In 1960, the average income for semi-professional and non-professional jobs was $7060 a year. In 2010, the average income for those same jobs was $45,406. (source of information is athttp://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article...=JS_2146_home1) And, from another source,. the 2010 figure is about 25% too high. Unfortunately, I do not have the link to the other source.
According to another source, http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article...=JS_2146_home1 executive income has gone up six times in just the last twenty years. Another words, an exec that is making $360,000 today, was only making $60,000 twenty years ago.
It says that executive pay went up an average of 30% each year for the last twenty years while middle-class America has only gotten an average of 12% each year for the last fifty years. And, we're not including bonuses or "Golden Parachutes".
One more area to look at, and this is from my own experience. In 1965 and 1966, I was making $8,000 a year. I was also paying 17 cents a gallon for gasoline. Just today, the current price of gasoline at the corner gas station at the corner is $3.599. To maintain the ratio between income and the cost of gasoline, today's average income should be about $170,000 a year.
In 1973, I was making $14,000 a year, and paying $51 every six months for car insurance. (And, supporting a wife and two kids, while buying a house for $10,000) The last premium I paid on car insurance came out to $147 a month. Back in 1973, the monthly cost was just $8.50. To maintain the ratio of income to car insurance premiums, today's average income should be about$240,000 a year. Want to check with IRS and see just how many "Average Americans" are actually making that much? And, the story is the same no matter what area of expense you look at, groceries, utilities, housing, etc.
That is what is "INCOME INEQUITY". What to do about it is the "$64,000 question". Solutions are sure to be as varied as the people that offer them, but now, you should be able to come up with a better informed opinion.
Now, with regard to the quote, by all means, give your kids every advantage you can. Stress education. Any kind of court record will hurt their chances for a successful career. But, keep in mind...
Let's say that 99% of the next generation gets a master's degree. (No, I don't think that's realistic) It's also not realistic to think that every one of them will get jobs where they will use that degree. There will be a number of them serving at Pizza Hut. A good education and a clean record does not give them a guarantee, but it does improve their chances at a comfortable life." (end quote)
Congratulations the_windwalker, you've earned a spot on my anecdotes collection that's meant to show in a very concrete way the wage stagflation or really deflation experienced for the bottom 80-90 percent of workers the last 30-40 years. I submit only the top 1- 20% percent of wage earners has kept up with cost inflation. That's 2 in 10 workers, certainly NOT middle class, and I think 20% is pushing it. More like the top 10%.
Keep in mind when you read these anecdotes and watch Dr. Warren's lecture think RATIOS. That's exactly my point. For example: "In 1973, I was making $14,000 a year, and paying $51 every six months for car insurance. (And, supporting a wife and two kids, while buying a house for $10,000). How many people now make 40% more IN ONE YEAR than the value of their HOME!!!!: cool::thi nk: GuyNTexas' anecdote illustrates this point very well also.
just because SALARIES havent kept up with INFLATION doesnt mean we should still CLASSIFY based on 1955/1965 numbers.......average salary in 1966..6900...median house price 14k....about 50% right...use those numbers compared to the meadin house....the median salary SHOULD be 130k...not 50k
sorry but this is not 1955 , when 250k was rich...please get with the times...its 2010"(end quote)
"The "inequity" comes in where the expenses have out-paced the income for the average American. While EVERYTHING ELSE has gone up, income for the "middle-class" has stagnated over the last fifty years. That is the problem with the economy today. The "middle-class", the MAJORITY of Americans do not have enough money to keep the economy flowing. Inequity = DIS-PROPORTIONATE".
Show me just one exec whose decisions are actually worth a million dollars a day. Even just a thousand dollars a day. Think about it. As great as he was, even Steve Jobs is now replaced. And, as great as he was for the company, he was not that great for America. Look where your Apple product is made. American jobs?
Ever hear of "The Law of Diminishing Returns"? Keep raising your prices, and eventually, you'll price yourself out of business. That is what Corporate America has done. They have priced the economy out of business.
Take a look at the cost of a kit to put a motor on a bicycle. A 50 CC kit has gone up nearly $100 because of the demand. They're replacing cars with motorized bicycles and scooters. And, the auto industry isn't doing as well as they were ten years ago.
If a cashier is being paid exactly what they are worth, then we're paying far more for everything than it's worth. Gasoline isn't worth $3.599 a gallon. Why are we paying that much? Car insurance is not worth what we're paying. Why are we paying it?"(end quote)
Withou further ado here's the rest of the collection. In my opinion no one who is honest, can think critically and do math can deny what's contained herein:
Pay close attention to the years in the following posts of people who lived in the mid 70's-early 80's:
"Sad. I made $9 an hour during the Summer break in the mid 1980s running telephone lines in office buildings. It was a horrible low paying job then. You know what $9 is worth today adjusted for inflation since 1985. $4.42 cents. That same job today would be need to pay $18.50 per hour. If you have no perspective on how things suck..you'll settle for anything. The USA will look like these ghettos in Brazil before people wake up to this right wing propaganda they've been spoon fed for 30 years."(end quote)
"You know what $9 is worth today adjusted for inflation since 1985. $4.42 cents."
"Just because things were better, doesn't mean they were great. I don't deny that there were folks like yourself. Nevertheless, more opportunity (on average) did exist back then.
During college I worked part time at a warehouse. One of my co workers was a Guyanese who came into the US illegally in '77 or '78 (he later received amnesty under Reagan). He used to tell me how his first job, as an illegal, paid $10.50/hour. In 2006, after he was laid off from a warehouse making 33/hour, we were working for $12/hr. $10.50 in '78 or 12 in 2006. Inflation much?"(end quote)
"Also the wages aren't there and if you compare that with inflation it just doesn't work.
In 1980, I had an entry level job as a sound engineer with a local independent TV station earning $5.00 per hour.One paycheck paid my rent and utilities and auto insurance and the other 3 paycheckseach month were disposable income.
An entry level job today pays $8.50 to $10 per hour and even at $10 per hour it takes 2 paychecks to cover the cost of rent, utilities and auto insurance (and don't forget in 1980 $10 -- or two hours of work -- paid for 2 tickets to the cinema show, a tank full of gasoline and something to eat after the movie -- the cost of two movie tickets now is over $20)."
(end quote)
"The guy is a typical, narrow minded moron who probably has a picture of Reagan on his wall and NOBAMA stickers on his car. He really thinks in this world, with gas being $3.50 per gallon and food twice what it was 5 years ago that $8.50 per hour is "competitive" How friggin stupid can anyone be? I was making more than that in 1981 in a part time job. I started out at $14.00 per hour in 1984 when I bought my first house for $42,000!
He has NO RESPECT for his employees. None.(end quote)
"No. I'm really disagreeing with .. not missing your point. And those numbers don't tell a very accurate story, and the proof is demonstrated by the drop in net worth of middle income earners as their debt has increased significantly, while earnings have declined relative to inflation.
By most measurable data points, the middle income class has been dying a very slow, incremental death for 4 decades because the costs on high ticket items have increased more rapidly than the either the inflation rate or rates of increases in income. To further compound the problem, average income levels have failed to keep pace with the inflation rate itself. Much of this goes unnoticed because of it's slow incremental nature (like growing old). But if you are old enough, and still maintain your mental faculties, you can't be bull $hted into believing what you are trying to say here.
As just one example, in 1977, I bought a brand new Pontiac Trans Am for $5200. And since it was my first car purchase, I suspect I was clubbed like a baby seal (paid full MSRP), as I simply asked how much, and said OK (later I learned the error of this way to purchase automobiles )
Now today, that car is no longer available, but a comparable car "Chevy Camero SS" is. And a similarly configured model is around $35,000 MSRP. Which is almost double the adjusted for inflation number of $18,700 that Camero should cost relative to the $5200 Trans Am of 1977.
My income back then was 14,000 or just shy of 3 times what the car cost ... if you apply that same formula to the $35,000 Camero today, I'd have to earn roughly $100,000 per year to maintain the same standard (drive the same car) as my $14,000 income provided then. I was not wealthy then .. I was a 20 year oldworking in a warehouse driving a forklift. And I don't think there are many 6 figure forklift drivers around today ...I would say, the 40-50K range would be the upper limit ... or roughly the same as my $14,000 would be, adjusted for inflation.
This is one example, and almost any big item ... car, house, etc. works out to be the same. Some other items like Healthcare have dramatically exceeded those rates exponentially compared to 1977 where mine was absolutely free and first rate, including dental.
Now, add to this the higher taxes, social security withholding, and medicare ... all of which have exceeded the inflation rate (and don't let anyone BS you into believing it hasn't), means that the net spending power of your income has declined dramatically over the past 30+ years. (See video below she documents ALL this IN DETAIL)
Now around about that same time frame, my step father worked for one of the US Government agencies earning roughly in the 50-60K range, and at the time, that was very good money, but not even close to RICH & Wealthy .... but adjusted for inflation, that comes out to around $200+K now. The house he purchased then at $50,000 appraised for $480,000 in 2004-5 even though the adjusted for inflation value would have only dictated a $155,000 figure ... 3 times the inflation rate!! By the time he retired in the late 90's, his income may have doubled, yet his house increased by 6-8 fold. What does that tell you?
Now if you are following me here ... this is where it gets real hairy ... if you take a Quarter ... 25 cents ... from say 1964 (the last 90% silver Quarter) that 25 cents equates to $1.76 in 2010 value. But guess what? Today's melt value of that sliver quarter is about $3.70 which is again more than double the published inflation rate ....
So what does that all mean? It means very simply, that the value of your money is worth about half of what it's claimed to be worth, even after being adjusted for inflation .... and all it takes is to actually look at the historical costs of items like cars, and houses and health care costs from the late 60's to today, and also the median incomes. You see that the purchasing power has indeed declined. And this is a result of the devaluation of the currency (a hidden tax).
So when it comes to buying power, there has been a continuous decline that doubles the the inflation rates admitted .. which is why the middle class really doesn't exist for all practical purposes today.
There are the ultra wealthy, and the rest. The $250kers are just at the higher end of that rest of us, and they are the last of the upper middle class, and the next in line to fall ... apparently, much to delight of many who think that they are members of the Wealthy Club, and must fall for the sake of everyone.
I suppose this proves that indeed, misery loves company."(end quote)
"Which is ... I might add .... $17/hr is roughly $6 per hour in 1980 dollars adjusted for inflation, or $12,000 per year. Though that doesn't quite tell the whole story, since there are many costs that have increased way more than 3 fold, which makes me question the inflation calculations today.
For example, a brand new 1980 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 cost about $6,500 in 1980, while a 2013 Camaro SS Coupe runs close to $40,000 ... which is double the calculated inflation rate .... so a person buying a new camaro back then who was making $10/hr in 1980, would have to make $60/hr today, to be in the same financial situation.
That's just one example of many .... my regular bills back then were ... $12 phone, $25 electricity, no cable, no internet, no cell phone .... and rent was $250. My total living expenses (living alone) was less than $300 .. and food costs were about $20 per week, give or take. Gas was about .65 - .75 cents per gal as were cigarettes about .75 .... and you could get a beer in a bar for .50
I never had to juggle bills .... I lived quite well, drove a brand new car, went out on weekends regularly, never had to deny myself anything, and still managed to stash a couple hundred bucks away in a savings account every month ... on $10/hr
Don't try to live that way today ..... people who have no direct experience of what things were like back then, really have no idea how badly they are "taking it" today. No idea!"
I make a lot more than $100k but certainly do not feel rich.
My car is 14 years old and I have no intention to change it unless it dies.
I eat out more often but only 2-3 times a week and about $25/person at a time at most.
One thing that is different is that I travel 2-3 times a year to Europe and Asia on vacation but again, I don't stay in fancy 5 star hotels even on vacation.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Right out of college - I thought I'd be living high on the hog if I could make $1000 per month. I learned pretty quickly that was not the case. Yes, the goal posts kept moving. And, up until the last 10 years or so I felt like I did pretty well. NOW, I feel like I'm hanging by a THREAD into the middle class.
: cool:
$10.50 in '78 or 12 in 2006. Inflation much?"(end quote)
) 
