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I have struck up a friendship with a Human Resources Director and he is giving me lots of interesting things to think about regarding the world of employment.
This HR Director is in his 50s and has been in Human Resources most of his career and has seen it all for a number of highly respected large employers where HR is quite a bit of influence and is very active in working on employee relations issues.
I asked him about employees who are struggling with their performance and are put on some type of formal warning. (Oral warning, written warning, performance improvement plan) I was curious if most of them fight back and argue their performance is not a problem, or do they passively just sit there and accept the criticism. He said that most employees will not admit they are under performing and will fight their manager tooth and nail and in many cases try to move their fight to their bosses boss. In a sense, if they are going to go down, they will go down fighting.
Have you been put on some type of performance warning in the past? If so, did you argue or just take it? (if you were convinced you were doing a good job)
Have you been put on some type of performance warning in the past? If so, did you argue or just take it? (if you were convinced you were doing a good job)
How about you? You've said several times that you've been fired "many times" during your working years so I'd assume this would be something you'd have first hand knowledge of.
I’m a theater director and have found that the most difficult actors are usually the least talented. I’m pretty sure it applies to other fields as well.
I’m a theater director and have found that the most difficult actors are usually the least talented. I’m pretty sure it applies to other fields as well.
Very interesting...and I agree with it applying to other fields.
From my perspective, when I get a performance review, it's a mix of good things and things I could improve. I don't usually agree with him but hey, HE'S the boss! Now, I know I do a good job. However, I also know that I'm not perfect, a bit quirky and sometimes I rub people the wrong way. I know it's my approach so I know I have to work on it. Of course, I do dislike when he says "I know I don't communicate very well so this is why YOU'RE getting a lower mark" but again, I just ask what I can do to meet his expectations and then try my best to do what he says. Afterall, I don't want to get canned because I'm arguing with him...that's foolish. However, I also don't let him get away with incorrect assumptions. If I have to correct something, I make it quick and get back to the point of "how I can improve".
It's been a hard lesson for me over the years because I take my job seriously and work hard at being good. But, I suppose, as with so many things, there are trade-offs...I might be good at my job, but I get irritated with certain personality types...dangit if one of those isn't my boss!
If done correctly, there should be no room for argument really. Most likely there should already have been attempts to correct the issue or warnings. So if does get to a PIP, there should be documentation etc. on what led to the PIP.
And really, if you're at that point, its no longer about if they agree on the issue, but whether or not they understand the reasoning behind the action, the expectations moving forward, and what further action may take place if no change occurs. Any arguing or debating should have been done already.
Not saying they still can't argue it, but it would most likely not be very effective (or look very good).
Again, this is if the process was handled correctly.
The question below is a good one. So I will respond:
Yes, I have been fired quite a few times and in most cases I went down fighting because I believe to this day that I was wronged and my performance was excellent. (Though my wife says the only constant in the terminations was ME!)
I found out early that if I agreed and admitted my performance left something to be desired then the boss would easily justify his or her actions and I would be out fast. Basically I would be admitting that I was a screw up and the job was over my head. So that did not work.
Then after failing at being humble (saying I would do better in the future), I decided the next time I was in trouble to try a new approach. Fight my performance warning every way I could. They really had nothing on me. I made no mistakes per say or was did I break any personnel rules or policies. I did not have a problem with attendance, lying, cheating, anger or anything like that. I was told I was being written up because I was not a good fit. (Translation: The boss did not like working with me)
So I decided that if I just kept my head down I was still going down after the HR bureaucracy, so I decided to fight back. I went to HR and complained, I went to my bosses manager and had a long list of mistakes my supervisor had made. I documented my accomplishments and send a long email memo for the record to the COO. I tried to get my internal customers to write letters to the record about what I had done for them, many did and these were sent to my bosses manager.
My boss eventually declared war on me and stopped talking to me. I brought this up to my bosses manager and told her this was an example of the type of mentality I was dealing with. The big boss seemed somewhat interested in my defenses.
All these actions bought me some time but eventually I was fired on a day when the bosses boss was out on vacation. I don't know if the big boss ever gave her approval or not.
Yes, I was fired but I went down flaming! The supervisor who fired me left the company suddenly a few months later. I suspect all my efforts made her look bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by STT Resident
How about you? You've said several times that you've been fired "many times" during your working years so I'd assume this would be something you'd have first hand knowledge of.
Last edited by I'm Retired Now; 01-10-2014 at 03:56 PM..
I was put on a PIP one time in my 35 years and it was totally out of the blue. I contested, point by point facts, in writing, what my new manager of 3 months stated in my review. I won and was with the company long after he was laid off. Interestingly, the fact that I was on the PIP and contesting prevented me from being part of a huge layoff that wiped out my department. I was the sole survivor.
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