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Old 01-12-2014, 01:49 PM
 
508 posts, read 459,859 times
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My manager, in his early 40s, called another manager over and referred to him as his real last name + stein. For example, Mark Thomas-Stein. The thing is, neither of them is Jewish, but I am. I'm not sure what his reasoning is behind it. A few months ago I heard the two of them talking about the "stein" reference asking if it's pronounced like stine or steen, that they'd have to ask so-and-so because he was Jewish.

I would think it's not appropriate, but curious what others think.
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Old 01-12-2014, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,312,494 times
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Sounds like a weird inside joke between the two of them.
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Old 01-12-2014, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
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It's not racist. The definition of racism is when a majority race tries to suppress another race based on the qualities of their race.

If she meant it in a derogatory way, it could be an expression of PREJUDICE.

In what context did she call him "Stein"?
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:03 PM
MJ7
 
6,221 posts, read 10,738,843 times
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I might hear a crap storm from the OP for this one, but here goes. I'm not convinced Jews are a race, they are not an ethnicity either.

"Because there are groups and individuals who wish to purposely misrepresent Jewish identity and confuse others for agendas of either bigotry, identity theft, replacement theology or all of the above, there remains much confusion among many when that is really unnecessary. Jews who know Judaism and Jewish law don’t have these confusions, and once non-Jews learn these facts of Jewish law and recognize that Jews have the same rights of self-determination that are afforded to all nation peoples by the Declaration of Human Rights, they lose these confusions as well.

Jews are a nation people, Israel (tribal origin) bound by an eternal covenant of the faith (religion) of Judaism. We are like a huge family and only the family through our laws can determine who is a member of it. It is the laws of Judaism, given to the covenant nation, Israel, in the Torah, that determine Jewish identity. It is not a matter of “blood” but of self-determination through the laws of the Jewish people. I know that sounds repetitive but I repeated that because that appears hard for some to grasp.

People related to one another share genetic markers. Jews began as a family, then as a small group of tribes and has remained tribal in nature. However, Jews are NOT considered a race. Jews are not *an* ethnicity. There is simply NO single Jewish ethnicity. Neither ethnicity or race define Jewish identity. I repeat, it is Jewish law that defines Jewish identity and racial status is not one of the laws to define identity.

We are Klal Yisrael, the community of Israel. . **MANY** different and distinctly Jewish cultures and ethnicities have developed over the millennia in Diaspora lands. The Diaspora refers to the Jewish presence outside of Israel after the destruction of the First and Second Temple periods and the Bar Kochba revolt.

There are many ethnicities that are distinctly Jewish. There are the Mizrahi (from the Middle East and North Africa).The Sephardi (Spanish) and the Ashkenazi, (German, Polish, Russian and other Eastern European), the Beta Yisrael of Ethiopia, and the Bene Israel, Cochini and Baghdadi of India and there are even others. Each are different as to cultural practices and foods, but it is the faith and covenant that binds them all together as Klal Yisrael.

The Jewish people are considered both a nation and a religion. Our connection is primarily one of faith (religion) through the covenant of Israel, yet membership is also conferred by birth, through matrilineal descent. One may also become a part of the nation Israel by adoption of the faith of Judaism and formal procedures of conversion.

There you have it. One is born a Jew if their mother is Jewish and remains a member unless they become an apostate, or one may become a Jew through conversion.
One who converts to Judaism is considered as FULLY Jewish as one born Jewish and their children are Jews. This has been the case since the times of the Torah.
However, one may technically be a Jew if their mother is a Jew, but apostate to the covenant of Israel and no longer considered a member of the nation if they leave it for the covenant of faith of another religion.

The Jewish nation began as a group of tribes and our connection to one another is still from the perspective of a tribal nation. (example: as the Lakota nation has tribal procedure and law to determine who is a member of their tribe, who is not, who is expelled and who is adopted, so does Judaism)

One born a member of the tribal covenant nation Israel (Jewish) may not be observant or even believe in God and they’re still a full member, a Jew. They may not be a good member or an active member but they’ve not renounced membership by following something ELSE instead of Judaism. An atheist or a secular Jew is not trying to call something ELSE Judaism. That is how one may be an "atheist Jew". Not believing that there is such a thing as deity, any deity is not following a false deity. An atheist Jew may live Jewish ethics and identify with their people, but they did not take on foreign beliefs contradictory to the monotheism of Torah. An atheist may not convert *to* Judaism to become a "member of the tribe" because an affirmation of faith in the God of Israel is required to JOIN.

Now if one born into the covenant becomes apostate through rejection of the covenant by adoption of another belief contradictory to the covenant, they are still be considered a Jew, but for all intents and purposes, they're not given the status of a member. According to Jewish law they're not counted in a minyan,( the minimum number of adults required for certain prayers and other mitzvot), they can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery, they cannot be given honors to go up to read Torah at a synagogue, and they may not be allowed to speak for the Jewish people. Their membership status can be restored in full without formal conversion should they repent of their idolatrous or foreign god worship. Only then may apostates be embraced again as full members. One who has left the Jewish people for the foreign faith of another people must undergo the steps of teshuvah , which means repentance and return to the God of Israel. Some groups may require that the individual also requires immersion in the mikveh before being accepted back, but they do not require the formal steps of conversion should the person wish to return.

Jews are in NO way a *race* other than as members of the human race. For those who want to claim Judaism doesn't accept converts as fully Jewish, how about Ruth in the Bible? She was a member of the Moabite nation that was condemned to be separate from God for their evil. However, she was a righteous woman who converted and adopted the faith of Israel and was the ancestor of King David. The New Testament depicts her as being an ancestor of Jesus, too. I like to bring this up when some Christian groups want to declare that converts aren't "real Jews" or that Jews are a race. It is Jewish law alone, not Christianity or any other entity that determines the status of who and what is Jewish.
When a Jew adopts a belief that is in conflict with the Jewish religion, the belief does NOT become a " Jewish belief" just because a Jew chooses to believe in it. THAT is the conflict Jews have with some Christian groups who call themselves Jews if they deceptively try to present their Christian belief AS Judaism. A Jew who converts to Hare Krishna is just as apostate, but there exists no Jews for Hare Krishna or Hare Krishna Judaism evangelical groups spending millions of dollars a year in campaigns to convert secular Jews by convincing them it is a form of Judaism.

You can become a member of a tribe or nation if you meet the criteria of citizenship. And the covenant people, Klal Yisrael, remain as in the earliest days of the covenant..a nation. It hasn't changed.

Reform Judaism (of which I am a member) will consider as Jewish one whose father is a Jew IF the child was RAISED in Judaism actively and exclusively. Even in Reform Judaism, simply having a Jewish father without exclusively Jewish upbringing, would require conversion on the part of the person with only a Jewish father to become a Jew. Reform Judaism also recognizes that only Orthodox conversion is considered acceptable to all branches.

It is against Jewish law for any Jew to discriminate against a convert to Judaism. Since the time of the Torah converts have been accepted as fully Jewish, and this is the case in all branches. We are not even supposed to refer to the fact that they are converts! It is up to them if they wish to identify themselves as such. They are Jews, period.
The covenant people, Israel have been MULTIRACIAL since the days of Torah, Moses' wife, Zipporah was a black woman. I was raised to believe that the “mixed multitude” that came out of Egypt referred to the fact that there were Jews of every race who came out of Egypt and in every generation this is what we celebrate and honor at Passover all over the world among Jews of all races. There have been Ethiopian Beta Yisrael since the days of Solomon! And I repeat, one cannot convert to a race. One may convert and become fully Jewish.
This false notion of Jews as a RACEwas begun in the mid 1800's among some of the 'philosophers" of Europe, particularly French and German who were developing pseudoscientific concepts of race.One in particular was highly influential in spreading this toxic notion, and he did not confine his racism to Jews, but his particular form of Jew hate spread to influence millions. Ernest Renan, who lived from 1823-1892 and was from Brittany is credited with popularizing this false notion. Jewish writings always dispel this long held view that unfortunately because of the widespread nature of it’s acceptance decades ago, is sometimes held by people in innocent ignorance without knowing its origins. Many people who even know this notion is insulting to Jews mistakenly believe the Nazis were the first to disrespect the Jewish laws regarding Jewish identity by claiming Jews are a race rather than a covenant nation people who practice Judaism. Both false ideas, that the dogma of a contradictory religion to Judaism or the pseudo scientific ideas of antisemites who created the concept of Jews as race have authority to determine Jewish identity OVER the right of the laws of the people in question , reveals utter disregard and disrespect of the right of the Jewish people to self-determination according to Jewish law with regard to who is or is not a Jew.

The laws of Judaism forbid Jews from making distinctions between convert and born Jew and Jewish law does not teach us that God is exclusive to the Jew. The Jewish Bible (Tanakh ) tells from the beginning book to the end that the righteous of all nations ( Jew or Gentile ) have the capacity to connect directly
Source:

http://geography.about.com/cs/politicalg...
definitions of nation, country, state. Torah calls us the covenant NATION many times.
Judaism 101: What Is Judaism?
What Jews Believe
An EXCELLENT resource to learn the differences between Judaism and Christianity from a Biblical perspective. The author, Rabbi Stuart Federow is a well respected Rabbi who also co-hosts an interfaith radio program with a Catholic Priest and a Protestant Minister in Houston, Texas.
Jewish Language Research Website This is a link to a source that is a scholarly study of the development of Jewish languages. It will help you if you are interested in studying the different Jewish cultures and ethnicities..note PLURAL
Here is a great site for you about Black Jews http://www.angelfire.com/ca/dorseydon/f3...

http://www.beingjewish.com/identity/race...
http://www.beingjewish.com/basics/belief... both good references on Jewish identity and belief"

From, Are Jews a Race or simply a religion? - Yahoo Answers

Therefore, by default one cannot be racist to a Jewish person, they can be derogatory and defame you though, so if you feel like you were hurt by this then you should probably mention something. If it were me I would just ignore it.

Last edited by MJ7; 01-12-2014 at 02:15 PM..
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:12 PM
 
2,374 posts, read 2,763,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life View Post
It's not racist. The definition of racism is when a majority race tries to suppress another race based on the qualities of their race.

If she meant it in a derogatory way, it could be an expression of PREJUDICE.

In what context did she call him "Stein"?
Please point out the word "majority" TIA


"the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.



prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:16 PM
 
3,769 posts, read 8,803,481 times
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Whether based on race, ethnicity or religion, it was inappropriate.
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:20 PM
MJ7
 
6,221 posts, read 10,738,843 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StilltheSame View Post
Whether based on race, ethnicity or religion, it was inappropriate.
Agreed, however, the source would have to be determined by HR as direct or indirect.
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Connecticut
206 posts, read 404,556 times
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The only acceptable use of this silliness would be if one were trying to equate the other one to Frankenstein. Then it might be slightly humorous.

Note to MJ7: I didn't read a word you posted.
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:35 PM
 
4,862 posts, read 7,965,555 times
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I don't see a problem with it. Sometimes people just have a question. When I was a kid I had questions on Jewish holidays so I asked my Jewish friends. My vote says no nothing racist there. Nothing to see here folks. Keep it moving.
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,927 posts, read 59,966,647 times
Reputation: 98359
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG Dallas View Post
Please point out the word "majority" TIA


"
What???

There's a difference between true racism and prejudice, if that's what you're getting at.

Many people use the words interchangeably, but they have distinct meanings.

Like I said, if the co-worker meant it to be an insult, it could be a problem in the workplace.
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