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I worked in a minimum security state prison in the 80's (I was secretary to the Captain) and part of the requirements for being transferred to that prison was that the inmates had to work at something.
That might mean that they worked in the kitchen, the laundry, on the maintenance crew, or some other job within the prison. OR, they could work for the Department of Natural Resources, under the supervision of a "crew supervisor," maintaining state parks, building trails, and in the summer, fighting fires.
This was not "slave labor;" they were all paid a small hourly wage, which would go on their books and which they could spend in the "store" or to even have sent home. What they got paid depended on their job - some of the jobs paid very little (I want to say less than a dollar an hour), but if they took the harder jobs, like working in the woods, they got paid more, and when they fought fires, they got paid even more ("fire pay").
I suspect this type of program is more typical than a lot of people realize.
Off the top of my head, I can think of half a dozen jobs that normal people don't want to do. Separating different types of materials in a recycling plant, construction, picking up garbage in parks, etc. Rather than having them not do anything and then once they leave they have no skills to show for it, why not expand these job programs to prison inmates?
No, it's not slavery. I'm proposing voluntary, paid jobs. Why not?
You think it would be slavery, if they weren't paid? Normal people have to work and then pay for their food, housing, and medical care out of their earnings. When the bad behavior of the inmate has forced the taxpayer to foot the bill for their food, medical care and security needs, why would they then be allowed to earn money that was purely discretionary income--instead of first being required to pay back the taxpayer's costs? We aren't talking small amounts here: in New York City, each and every inmate cost the taxpayer $167,731 (NYC's yearly cost per inmate almost as expensive as Ivy League tuition | Fox News). So if we could force them to work, we certainly shouldn't be paying them for it--we should reimburse the taxpayers instead.
But fundamentally, we must recognize that there are very few jobs that people "want" to do. This is why we have an economy, where people offer their labor in return for paychecks. For private sector jobs, there is a business owner providing a good or service to his customers in return for money, and he pays his workers out of the money he collects. And for public sector jobs, the taxpayer provides the funds that pay all the government workers. In both cases, use of prison labor would allow the employer to buy labor for LESS than the "market rate" (the rate of pay that is required to get someone to do the job). We already have illegal immigrants that work for less than the going rate (also subsidized by the taxpayer, via the welfare system) and they devalue labor for ALL legal Americans. The last thing we should do is increase unemployment by pushing regular workers out of jobs that should be available, or further devalue pay levels.
The only exception to this situation is when the job would simply not get done at all otherwise. Private business has already mastered the art of abandoning any job that doesn't absolutely need to be done. So we are limited to public services, like picking up garbage in parks or on roadside. These programs do exist (or at least they did when I lived in Florida) but they are very limited for a number of reasons.
First, only non-violent prisoners can be used, and this is a big limitation; in many prisons almost everyone is dangerous. Escapes from these work crews are not uncommon, since guards obviously don't like to shoot prisoners in a public setting. There are significant extra costs involved (even if the prisoners are not paid): transportation, guards, administering the work program. In the case of highway trash pickup, you also have trash transport and disposal costs, which are increasingly onerous.
And politically, few states will risk prison "work gangs": the mere appearance of armed guards and prison work crews will cause liberals to go spastic over the idea that prisoners are being "forced" to work, and guarded by those terrifying guns! Should guards actually have to subdue an unruly prisoner, or if the prisoners tried to escape, civilian lawyers will be coming out of the woodwork to bring huge lawsuits that the taxpayer will get to pay.
And another fundamental trouble with your proposal is this: you cannot FORCE someone to do productive activity, unless you can punish them for not working, or offer an incentive that they want. The punishment idea is off the table because our wonderful legal system guarantees prisoners all the civil rights and protections of law abiding citizens (except freedom). Thanks to liberals, we can't even take their televisions or workout equipment way.
The incentive idea is probably limited to a paycheck, since there are few other incentives you can give in prison. Even if we did allow prisoners to earn job income, do we let them keep the entire amount for themselves, or do we ask them to repay some small portion of their cost to the taxpayer? Everyone else in America has to pay for their house, food and medical care out of their paycheck, why should prisoners get such very favorable treatment?
But say we decide to allow the inmate to keep the entire paycheck. Is that enough of an incentive to get them to work? Unfortunately, the pay an inmate earns for an entire week of work is still not going to be significant--in fact, it will seem like virtually nothing to those familiar with the high profits of dealing drugs (as many inmates are). And also remember that money doesn't mean much to those who are incarcerated: their day is exactly the same whether they have money or not. In jail, money can't be translated into goods or services--so it offers very little incentive to work.
Add in the fact that most people in prison are not disciplined enough to be even minimally productive workers. There are a few prisoners who can and will work, and they are probably already employed inside the prison (in the laundry, for example) but even these people are a major problem because they get ahold of materials that are later made into weapons. Prison guards constantly do searches and come up with newly-made weapons, and there are countless attacks of inmates on other inmates using weapons, as well as attacks on guards.
They have to work (mandatory) on any position they are physically suitable for and which prison administration decides to put them on. They have to receive minimal wage. Out of their earnings, the cost of obamacare, food, housing, clothing, internet, telephone, utilities etc. should be subtracted. If they have some residual income, they can get money for electronic cigarettes ($100/mo), and the rest should go to their kids' college funds (50%) and their own pension funds (25%) and savings account (25%) . That's it. Simple and fair. Oh, I forgot, before kids etc. they should repay any court-defined restitution to victims. And, their property should be auctioned and used for the restitution, too. Somebody who knows how, make a petition out of it, please.
Add in the fact that most people in prison are not disciplined enough to be even minimally productive workers. There are a few prisoners who can and will work, and they are probably already employed inside the prison (in the laundry, for example) but even these people are a major problem because they get ahold of materials that are later made into weapons. Prison guards constantly do searches and come up with newly-made weapons, and there are countless attacks of inmates on other inmates using weapons, as well as attacks on guards.
And that is the best reason to NOT do what you suggest.
Do you think prisoners don't have connections outside the walls? That a weapon could be left where the prisoner will then have access to it?
Do you want that blood on your hands...all so that you can be satisfied that you got your pound of flesh from such a horrible rotten awful person? Punishment freaks like you are part of the problem. It's why we incarcerate a higher percentage of our population than any civilized nation on Earth.
They have to work (mandatory) on any position they are physically suitable for and which prison administration decides to put them on. They have to receive minimal wage. Out of their earnings, the cost of obamacare, food, housing, clothing, internet, telephone, utilities etc. should be subtracted. If they have some residual income, they can get money for electronic cigarettes ($100/mo), and the rest should go to their kids' college funds (50%) and their own pension funds (25%) and savings account (25%) . That's it. Simple and fair. Oh, I forgot, before kids etc. they should repay any court-defined restitution to victims. And, their property should be auctioned and used for the restitution, too. Somebody who knows how, make a petition out of it, please.
Yeah, strip them bare. Absolutely. And take away from the innocent spouse, all the assets and turn them into the streets and make a whole criminal family!
A couple potential issues... Suppose an entity begins using prison labor. Suppose the demand for that prison labor intensifies. Suppose people aren't committing enough crimes to satisfy that demand... With a pinch of collusion, you could have cases where innocent people wind up incarcerated because demand for (insert product/service here) just shot up, but there are not enough prisoners to keep up with demand.
Another issue is unfair competition. It's pretty difficult for any legitimate business to compete against quarter an hour labor. It all depends on what exactly the prison laborers are utilized for.
No mater what the inmates work at it still won't cover the $60k a year it costs to incarcerate them plus whatever damage they did to society.
Off the top of my head, I can think of half a dozen jobs that normal people don't want to do. Separating different types of materials in a recycling plant, construction, picking up garbage in parks, etc. Rather than having them not do anything and then once they leave they have no skills to show for it, why not expand these job programs to prison inmates?
No, it's not slavery. I'm proposing voluntary, paid jobs. Why not?
It's a good idea -- prisoners need work skills if they're ever going to make it after they're released, but our government would rather bring in millions of cheap illegals and let the American people go without.
Off the top of my head, I can think of half a dozen jobs that normal people don't want to do. Separating different types of materials in a recycling plant, construction, picking up garbage in parks, etc. Rather than having them not do anything and then once they leave they have no skills to show for it, why not expand these job programs to prison inmates?
No, it's not slavery. I'm proposing voluntary, paid jobs. Why not?
Funny, I know dozens (hundreds?) of normal people who do those exact jobs. What was your point again?
Im trying to figure out why construction is on the list of things normal people don't want to do.
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