Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am hoping this thread will be a valid debate and not some p***ing contest where anyone attacks anyone else for their views. Here's my quick and short-version story: I am 42 with 20 years experience in accounting. I hold only an AA Degree, as there originally was no university in my area to complete a BA and once there was, I did not have the funding to go back and complete it and I had already been in my field for 15 years. The degree had not been an issue in finding employment as I lived in a small town and county. However, then I moved to the Big City and BAM - now I struggle to find employment. A long time ago, I worked hard to work my way up in 6 years from A/P clerk to Controller. I worked as a Controller for 10 years and now without the BA Degree I struggle to get an interview. Now, I am working so obviously work is out there but for every 50 or so jobs apply for, I maybe hear back from 1, maybe.
So, how does 2 additional years of school completely wipe out and invalidate 20 years of experience? This is not whining; this is a valid question open for debate. I know I am not the only person experiencing this. Now - this is frustration and NOT a sense of entitlement. If it was between me and someone else with the same experience but they had the higher degree then yes, I can see that person being hired over me. However, my frustration is with the person with the higher degree and only 4 years experience being hired. I can't even get the interview with 20 years' experience!
Here is my other question, and this is thinking a little outside box, but with major concentration classes aside, the additional two years of school makes for a more well-rounded person, right? I say that 20 years of experience makes for a much better rounded person. In my experience as an accountant, I have also been in charge of human resources and I/T, so in my 20 years, in a real-world way, I have been quite literally experiencing and learning on a daily basis sociology, psychology, interpersonal communications, speech, economics, finance and even geography, statistics and logistics, and on a much greater level than I ever learned in any school.
Am I the only person who thinks this way? I have been a hiring manager and I have always kept this in mind when hiring. No doubt, seeing an applicant with a degree is a plus but it is not the only factor. I will take quality experience and personality any day over a degree with limited experience. I understand that in big cities there is an abundance of applicants, but some of the best people I have hired have been the ones without the major degree. I truly believe people with great experience are worth interviewing.
Now I know this will surely bring on lots of different responses. Again, this is meant to be a valid debate regarding degree v. experience. Lets weed out things such as: some companies want to hire young people right out of college to mold them, etc. This is not what I am looking for. I have even heard one person state that "degrees weed out lazy people" - I'm hoping to not see this type of ignorant attitude. Both lack of funding and life circumstance can keep people from attaining a college degree at any given time in life. Let's keep this professional and I look forward to your responses.
The debate between degrees and experience frankly can be as old as time itself. Sometimes there might be a hot degree in a field of which that is the only way to get some experience while a shift in the marketplace might make experience more valuable.
I think one of the biggest issues though is that employers, mostly the private sector has eroded much of their training programs and often times is not nearly as transparent then the public or non profit sector or with degrees.
When I graduated with my associates the field I wanted to enter popped (dot com bubble). As that happened it was harder to get experience because so many companies did go under. At the same time I was told like you that I should go back to "finish" my degree.
Are there any trade associations that you might be able to join in your field? It seems to me that although they are not unions that there are countless ones that try to stay abreast of the market and of course lobby.
I would argue that the learning process does not end and does not automatically mean someone has to get a higher degree. There can be certificates and various licenses that might bolster someone in the eyes of an employer.
If a degree is such a non-factor, why not just earn one to add to your "experience"?
It's always people WITHOUT degrees trying to downplay their value or significance.
Honestly, your reply doesn't make sense. The underlying point of my post is that I am now finding in the big cities that the degree IS a factor. Why not just earn one? Let's see, if I had the extra $25,000 to do so, I would have by now. But thank you for your stereotypical generalization. It is exactly what I didn't want this thread to be about.
The reason big-city employers are insisting or preferring degrees is because they can. In larger cities with a lot of universities, employers seem to be pickier about degrees and sometimes even prefer degrees from a local university that they know. Again, it isn't really about the value of a degree or what one might or might not have learned while earning it. It's just that, when reviewing stacks and stacks of resumes, they can pick out any criteria they want to. So while one might have 20 years of experience an an AA, perhaps another applicant had 20 years of experience and a bachelor's or master's.
I did find, as you noted, that location was really important. I lived in an area for a while where there were very few universities (exactly one,) and it seemed that people in general didn't care about degrees there. A lot of positions were held by people who didn't have degrees, whereas the same job in a bigger city would probably require one.
It's likely that nobody is even seeing your resume because any online application that filters would knock it out since there is no degree on it.
I read something last year where someone without a degree had the same issue until he added to his resume that he was working on getting his degree from XXXX University. He started getting interviews, was hired and didn't pursue his education after that and nobody said anything about it.
I'm not sure I would do that, but if you're emailing a resume, I would leave education off of it completely. It would probably be assumed you have an undergrad degree of some type, whereas if you include your AA on it, then you're pointing out that you don't.
I really think, though, it's a matter of the software knocking your resume out.
I definitely understand when it comes to people with the same experience plus the degree. I just wish that employers would give the ATS systems options to allow resumes from people with vast experience and a lessor degree. I would like to have a chance against someone with say only 4 years experience.
I don't have a degree at all, but I have 21 years of experience in my field. There's only been one company who couldn't hire me because I didn't have a degree, and that was Lockheed Martin. And the guy tried to get them to bend the rules but the wouldn't.
I have never had a problem finding a job. I got laid off earlier this year and was hired within a month by another company.
I believe it's experience. Having a degree doesn't make you able to do the work.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It is exactly what I didn't want this thread to be about.
