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That is the same issue with science PhD programs. You spend 5-7 years as a serf working ridiculous hours in a lab and if you manage to graduate you have nothing to look forward to but worse job prospects and crappy post-docs as a reward. That is why you are finding fewer and fewer American citizens in those programs. Americans are getting better and better at smelling out scams and lousy deals.
Many times intelligence and hard work just don't pay off in today's economy.
Here is a question: what opportunities are there for honest Americans who want to decent money (not become rich, but enough to live securely) without working ridiculous hours?
Wow...software engineers making 60K/year. With the claim that the prevailing wage is 48K/year. Uh huh
But hey it varies due to cost of living. LOL...so lets hit my state.
Uh huh. Heck theres my company, and they're stating we pay software engineers 64K/year. 70K at the senior level. But all those get withdrawn. Basically it looks like they were attempts to lower the wage.
But then I look at the ones that were certified. ALL between 80-95K. In fact none of them hit 6 figures. Now why do I make so much more then a visa candidate? Its simple-because if I was paid less, I would go to another local company that doesnt have the easy ability to hire a visa candidate, and would be paid more. That being said, it places a downward pressure on my income. And it makes software engineering look like a bad field to get into, its difficult, high stress, and the pay has been stagnating for a while now.
People leave the engineering field because theres a lot of lower paying jobs with less stress. And less competition from lower waged H1-B's in large corporations.
Even worse is that more and more jobs are made contract positions. So theres no job security at all.
You can pay a H1-B candidate less, not give them pay raises, and they wont wander to another company. The H1-B program has been abused massively.
Wow...software engineers making 60K/year. With the claim that the prevailing wage is 48K/year. Uh huh
But hey it varies due to cost of living. LOL...so lets hit my state.
Uh huh. Heck theres my company, and they're stating we pay software engineers 64K/year. 70K at the senior level. But all those get withdrawn. Basically it looks like they were attempts to lower the wage.
But then I look at the ones that were certified. ALL between 80-95K. In fact none of them hit 6 figures. Now why do I make so much more then a visa candidate? Its simple-because if I was paid less, I would go to another local company that doesnt have the easy ability to hire a visa candidate, and would be paid more. That being said, it places a downward pressure on my income. And it makes software engineering look like a bad field to get into, its difficult, high stress, and the pay has been stagnating for a while now.
People leave the engineering field because theres a lot of lower paying jobs with less stress. And less competition from lower waged H1-B's in large corporations.
Even worse is that more and more jobs are made contract positions. So theres no job security at all.
You can pay a H1-B candidate less, not give them pay raises, and they wont wander to another company. The H1-B program has been abused massively.
Which company are you looking at? All this information is public, so we can look at real numbers rather than you just spit out numbers that cannot be verified.
Also, keep in mind, those are just initial offers. Not actual pay rates. I picked Netflix because it's one of the companies complaining about the lack of qualified technologists. Take a look at any other company on that list: HP, Microsoft, etc.
I thought everyone knew this lol? Big businesses and colleges are working together spreading this message of a shortage so people can run to be buried in thousands of dollars in debt only to find out when they graduate that there was no such thing
Which company are you looking at? All this information is public, so we can look at real numbers rather than you just spit out numbers that cannot be verified.
Also, keep in mind, those are just initial offers. Not actual pay rates. I picked Netflix because it's one of the companies complaining about the lack of qualified technologists. Take a look at any other company on that list: HP, Microsoft, etc.
Shrug, lets try a different employer then mine (some of the folks here are crazy) that I have interviewed with and declined so I have some idea of the pay.
Tesla in California.
Firmware engineer. Tesla is paying 100K in palo alto to a H1-b. The cost of living in palo alto is 233% of the national average. The national average pay rate for a firmware engineer is 86K. Hmmmmm
Here is a question: what opportunities are there for honest Americans who want to decent money (not become rich, but enough to live securely) without working ridiculous hours?
Finance playing shell games with money though I am not sure about the hours. Other than that a lot healthcare professions.
The answer to the h1b problem is simple. Raise the fees on H1-b's to say a $70k fee to the government each year you employ the said h1b. If companies had to do that they'd find all kinds of qualified US employees.
"The real issue, say Salzman and others, is the industry’s desire for lower-wage, more-exploitable guest workers, not a lack of available American staff. “It seems pretty clear that the industry just wants lower-cost labor,” Dean Baker, the co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, wrote in an e-mail. A 2011 review by the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that the H-1B visa program, which is what industry groups are lobbying to expand, had “fragmented and restricted” oversight that weakened its ostensible labor standards. “Many in the tech industry are using it for cheaper, indentured labor,” says Rochester Institute of Technology public policy associate professor Ron Hira, an EPI research associate and co-author of the book Outsourcing America."
So let's hear the usual naysayers here talk about how Americans just need to study STEM degrees, or are greedy, or don't have enough qualifications.
Stop bending over to corporations who are bringing nothing to the country.
I would go with the highlighted part. I am in engineering. I was on H1 visa until a while back & I have been to career fairs on campuses, got extensively involved in hiring process for my team with my old company. For every 10 resumes I would get from international students/professionals, I would get maybe 1 equally good resume from citizens. Most international students in engineering come here to pursue their Masters so that gives them an edge on citizens who have mostly Bachelor's degrees & start working to pay off their student loans & don't pursue higher education. My old company was reluctant to sponsor H1 visas as its an expensive, lengthy process that didn't give much flexibility to either the employee or the employer. They used to send employees on international trips frequently & it was difficult to work with H1 employees as they would frequently have to get their H1 visa stamped in their country of origin & it was a hassle to get visas to other countries. My company had to bear the costs for some of this. So its not cheap. But still they sponsored H1 because you get more qualified professionals. Its about survival & immigrants work much harder to stay employed in their field. They are constantly learning new skills, growing in their profession because if they lose their jobs, their sponsorship is gone & they have to leave the country within 40days. So they are always on the edge. Sure, some employers take advantage of this. Citizens might slack off because they have the cushion of unemployment benefits & welfare whereas immigrants don't. Also, spouses of citizens work so they have another source of income if they lose their jobs whereas the spouse of an immigrant who is on a dependent visa cannot work until they get their green cards (about 10-20yrs) or the spouse can find a sponsor. So citizens are demanding raises & better benefits whereas immigrants get stuck in same job for years with no demands & they are constantly improving themselves. So why wouldn't employers hire immigrants?
You think its bad now, wait till the immigration reform kicks in & the dependent spouses can work as well. That's twice the competition. Not sure about other countries but I can say this about Indians - education is VERY important. Science, maths are popular subjects & you tend to marry someone who has a degree in these subjects. So the spouses of the immigrants are equally qualified but cannot work due to their dependent status but once that's lifted, they will have no problem finding employment. Don't get me wrong as I am not degrading or hurting anyone. If you see my other threads about this topic, my aim is to motivate people towards STEM. This is where most jobs are so stop wasting your money on useless "luxury" degrees like psychology, music, arts, theatre. Motivate your kids to go into professions that guarantee you a job. You can survive without listening to music or watching sports or buying painting or high-end clothing. But you will not compromise on food, medicine, electricity, gas, cellphones, internet. So send your kids into STEM & not arts. Limit the number of art graduates based on number of jobs in the market. Asian countries have realized that few decades back & that's why they are reaping the rewards today. When you were harassing the "nerds" for studying science, kids like me in Asian countries were being rewarded at home & in society for our interests. That's what motivated us to pursue these subjects. Copy that part of their culture & maybe the next generation will not have unemployment woes.
That is the same issue with science PhD programs. You spend 5-7 years as a serf working ridiculous hours in a lab and if you manage to graduate you have nothing to look forward to but worse job prospects and crappy post-docs as a reward. That is why you are finding fewer and fewer American citizens in those programs. Americans are getting better and better at smelling out scams and lousy deals.
Many times intelligence and hard work just don't pay off in today's economy.
I disagree with this. Of course there is always an element of luck in success but I have never seen any truly intelligent person fail. The vast majority of people are mediocre but they won't realize this so they will complain how they are still failing even though they are so brilliant.
I disagree with this. Of course there is always an element of luck in success but I have never seen any truly intelligent person fail. The vast majority of people are mediocre but they won't realize this so they will complain how they are still failing even though they are so brilliant.
The ability to BS, office politic, be extremely extroverted, and toady up to the right people, and fool your way through HR's hiring BS will carry you farther in the US private sector than the ability to write great code, degrees from top universities, or hard work.
I know quite a few highly inteligent people that were duped into the science PhD trap (or worked in pharma or other f500's as scientists) that ended up worse off than a HS dropout blue collar worker with a history of drug use. At my aforementioned crappy permatemp job I worked with a reknowned cheese chemist from Kraft who got laid off in his 50's and ended up in permatemp limbo.
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