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Old 05-01-2013, 03:52 AM
 
Location: West Los Angeles
8,834 posts, read 8,966,941 times
Reputation: 9081

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Quote:
For every two students that U.S. colleges graduate with STEM degrees, only one is hired into a STEM job.

In computer and information science and in engineering, U.S. colleges graduate 50 percent more students than are hired into those fields each year; of the computer science graduates not entering the IT workforce, 32 percent say it is because IT jobs are unavailable, and 53 percent say they found better job opportunities outside of IT occupations. These responses suggest that the supply of graduates is substantially larger than the demand for them in industry. [italics in original]
Mangan's: No STEM shortage, no PhD shortage, but they want to flood us with immigrants anyway

Yet we're STILL told that there's a shortage of STEM workers, and therefore we need H-1B and L1 visa programs. Is there anything our policy makers state that is not a lie?
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:34 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,482 posts, read 31,872,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat View Post
Mangan's: No STEM shortage, no PhD shortage, but they want to flood us with immigrants anyway

Yet we're STILL told that there's a shortage of STEM workers, and therefore we need H-1B and L1 visa programs. Is there anything our policy makers state that is not a lie?
We need H1B people with specific skill sets. The US graduates may be well suited for entry level IT positions, but a lot of companies require people with particular skills and they are hard to find, because the universities do not teach those skills. For example people who were in IT in the 1980s and 1990s know programming langiuages such as RPG and COBOL which are not taught in universities anymore, and therefore it is hard to find people with those skills.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-01-2013 at 05:36 AM..
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:21 AM
 
3,363 posts, read 2,142,177 times
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Yeah, I have not dug too deeply into the report, but I suspect it is ignoring a lot of factors. I work for a semiconductor company which sells chips for consumer electronics applications. We have a lot of H1B folks in my office (~50%) because we cannot find qualified applicants domestically who are willing to move here. We have a specific skill set we need for our researchers, so that narrows the field significantly for our PhDs. For the rest of us rank and file engineers, again we are looking for the intersections of a couple relatively narrow skill sets. There just are not that many DSP programmers who can work on a fixed point chip, in assembly, who are interested in living in Michigan. We do get some recent grads, and some are US citizens, but again we need a specific set of skills and interests. Our candidate pool is a tremendously small slice of STEM grads, and if we excluded H1B visas, we would have to close the branch and go elsewhere.

The fellows I work with are not stealing anyone's job, they are contributing to the economy, paying their taxes, and distinguishing themselves in their chosen profession. Denying them these jobs will not make it any easier for some kid out of college with a IT degree, or Joe out-of-work programmer.

-NoCapo
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:46 AM
 
6,269 posts, read 6,102,825 times
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I know a lot of Chinese who obtained a STEM PhD in the US and do not have a green card after working in the US for 5 years.
Maybe you guys don't know that H1B visa has the same quota for each country. So citizens of China and India have the same upper limit as citizens of Panama or Ireland.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
11,920 posts, read 13,253,020 times
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What ever happened to GROWING your talent? Used to be an American tradition... Businesses taking care of their own problems.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:49 AM
 
6,269 posts, read 6,102,825 times
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Originally Posted by andywire View Post
What ever happened to GROWING your talent? Used to be an American tradition... Businesses taking care of their own problems.
Take a look at the universities, 70% students study "soft" majors because they are "easy".
Americans kids don't want to "feel bad". STEM students often feel bad.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,482 posts, read 31,872,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
What ever happened to GROWING your talent? Used to be an American tradition... Businesses taking care of their own problems.
No one wants to learn skill sets which died of extinction 20 years ago, because the market is so small of them. It's common sense.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,557,510 times
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A friend of mine in a Civil Engineering program asked what he should concentrate on. I suggested water, irrigation and drinking, supply and disposal. The world population is growing rapidly and a lot of people would like clean water. Some of them are generating enough wealth to pay for it.

Maybe the relevant industries should improve their IT technology and systems so they are using the, presumably, more efficient current programming languages. Or would that cost too much so we leave current graduates unemployed and import workers for the legacy systems.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,482 posts, read 31,872,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Maybe the relevant industries should improve their IT technology and systems so they are using the, presumably, more efficient current programming languages. Or would that cost too much so we leave current graduates unemployed and import workers for the legacy systems.
Companies do re-write old applications into newer platforms with newer programming languages because it is easier to find employees to support them, but there are still a lot of old applications out there which were created using old technologies, and someone needs to support them. Trust me, the newer technologies are more exciting, and the money is in the newer technologies, while the old ones are dying with no future, but someone has to support them.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:30 AM
 
48,897 posts, read 39,392,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
What ever happened to GROWING your talent? Used to be an American tradition... Businesses taking care of their own problems.
Because here in the US it isn't *cool* to be into science and math.

At our company we do just that, but guess what? We START with kids that have math, statistics etc. degrees and then train them further....and not from Crappo University either.

You have to crawl, then walk...then run. It's not our fault that many US students are "crawlers".
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