Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Having been in one of these boss/employee situations, I'm not sure those who haven't been in one, can appreciate it. We're way beyond where any type of rational approach or trying to "work it out with them" will apply. We're not talking about bosses who think rationally about problems and look for solutions or who think in terms of the best interest of the company, but who get an emotional high from beating on employees.
I've had good bosses, bad bosses and an evil boss. I had to put up with all of them until they left. The problem is two fold. First, we have a very good pension plan, not something I can afford to lose with this many years vested (too young to retire and to old to start over). Second, what I do is very specialized. We get paid well, but there are very few jobs in the country that do what I do. So it's not a matter of just going across the street and getting another job.
That same dynamic means it's hard for us to find and hire good employees as well. There just aren't that many. The good bosses recognize how difficult it is to hire good employees and manage things with an eye toward the future. The bad ones don't care about the long term. They just want to feel that emotional high they get from making others miserable.
Does your company keep Sick Time separate from PTO? If not, just call in sick during those days that you'll be vacationing.
Where I work, as well as many?/some? other places, have an official policy that if you call in sick and you are lying that is grounds for being immediately fired. Of course, they have to catch you but if someone has already asked for vacation time or PTO time for those dates it would be very suspicious. My company has an official policy that if you are sick for three consecutive days you must bring in a letter from your doctor. That can be a problem if you have something like a really, really bad cold where you wouldn't need to see a doctor but you have to go anyway just to get the doctor's excuse.
Heck, years ago when people only had land lines, I used to have an employer that would either call you at home during the day to "see how you were feeling" (ie. make sure that you were actually at home sick) or drive past your house to make sure that your car was in your driveway. I'm not sure that was even legal but they did it anyway.
While I appreciate the thought you put into this post, it is not my job to fix anyone.
I plan to go n vacation and she can fire me.
The implication of your post was that you are seeking advice.
And, if you recall, you asked if you should stand up for yourself.
I guess you did not mean that.
That you did not handle this well in advance and that you are willing to be fired suggests you are at a breaking point after two years.
No one can blame you.
My preference is to endeavor to fix, if possible, a situation so one can retrieve one's dignity, get a little peace in one's working life and if necessary, simply buy time until you have found a new job.
Sounds like you are getting ready to shift into fourth gear and head toward the nearest wall.
I hope you take the time to take a few breaths and determine if there are alternative ways for you to have your cake and eat it, too.
Honestly, to have such problems...I'd give anything to have these women's problems. Trips to Hawaii and Tahiti, the luxury of just quitting a job. The good life.
While your posts are full of insight they may avoid the critical juxtaposition of choice and growth. When a manager is manipulative and destructive to morale as this one is in the opinion of the OP, the situation demands a choice. A company which employs a manager like this is either 1) lazy or 2) stuck. Every good company knows that to improve morale managers must be sensitive to the needs of their employees. Well earned vacations, weddings, special events are reason to celebrate and a manager who attempts to insert her/his manipulative energy into that employees private time is simply not fit to manage. Now, you and I both know that there are thousands of people like this so your advice is good but it may miss the point of this person this OP and her situation.
As we work we strive for a better situation. That takes time and maturity and working through issues like this one. However, when a person wants to find something better it's important to recognize it and to encourage their progression in their career. Perhaps I missed this in your posts, but this employee is clearly "over it". No need to remain in a company which would utilize a manager just to maintain discipline, control or get the "most out of it's workers". Her next step I do suspect will be a better one, with this lesson well learned.
Freedom is the most sacred of all bonds between employee and employer. Own time, where spillover from work in the form of off job control is not allowed is a way to appreciate what makes a happy person and a productive employee. Intruding into this time creates automatic issues and if one is not a public servant where that line is blurred employees expect the respect to make their own choices regarding free time aka time off duty.
Your posts are very informative and helpful to those who are looking to solve problems, however when an employee is caused more stress by this type of "bully" while learning the skills may be helpful, so might finding a position which meets their own needs more clearly and in a company which knows it ass from a hole in the ground.
Well, Hello, AADAD..... I like what you have said here. Thanks for the kind comments.
While I like what you have said and agree with most all of it, please do not misunderstand me.
Quitting is always an option. I never suggested the OP is stuck.
I prefer to solve problems whenever possible and I also prefer to give advice leading to solutions rather than just saying what I know what most everyone will say....in this case, that she should quit.
How easy.
There are a lot of times when I breeze through here, see the comments are more or less or exactly what I would have said and so I move on. I am not a 'me, too' person and when the [informed] regulars here make valid suggestions, it does not matter how much experience I have; if the 'right' replies were posted, I am not needed.
I described that I have three audiences- the people here, reading these posts, those who are nearby but are mostly watching and then there are the rest who make up, in my case, that 147,000 reads who took the time and read my 147+ posts.
So, in order to do the most amount of good, I deliberately do soap box style posts so as many people as possible get a benefit from my thirty years in the Search business.
No one is going to pay me to just jump in and say, "...yes, Unhappy, she is obviously a *itch and you should quit...".
That doesn't make anybody any money.
So I gave her a rough outline of what she could do to, as she did say, 'stand up' for herself. Now, since, she would rather not deal with the issue, she has declared she is going, come hell or high water and if she is fired, well, That's Life.
I'm glad I took the 'longer' route since of those 147,000 reads, at least, conservatively, one or two percent of those people will put my suggestion to work. Out of that number, five percent will Win.
That was worth it. Unhappy gets no benefit from what I said but at least a handful of people out there in Virtual Land did indeed, 'fix' their relations with their boss, achieve peace, dignity and time to send out those resumes. LOL.
So, thanks to Unhappy, I've done a lot of people some good.
KC is one of my favorite towns and were it not for the brown recluse, chiggers et al.... I would probably work there for a little time....and Omaha. Educational efforts are always good to do. My soapbox is people who drink and who drive and why ordinary nice people end up on the wrong side of the wheel and the prison bars.
Unhappy, does your employer have any kind of handbook that specifically addresses the procedures for PTO? If so, I'd reference that. If you are unable to find it, you could inquire to HR. Not complain, just ask for the official policy so that you can properly plan your vacation of course.
Speaking of HR, I have to agree with Paul - they don't work for you, they work for management. I have never worked at a company where HR was in the employee's corner. Even when workplace bullying took place. As soon as the race card or religious card is used though, they are all over it. I will say though, if a manager has tried to deny you benefits owed, they can sometimes be useful. My last boss tried that - told me I couldn't take my vacation (that is always booked one year in advance, and that I take every year) because I wouldn't have 40 hours of PTO to cover it. But I wasn't salaried, so it didn't really matter. I was entitled to take part of it unpaid if I wanted. Long story short -- I had been asked to use my PTO earlier in the year to help offset payroll overage. As in, take time off and use PTO so they didn't have to keep me on the schedule. My manager had not done her math correctly and went way over on payroll, and I helped her out. Lucky for me, I had written proof saying that I would do so, as long as it did not affect my ability to take my upcoming vacation. Well when that bit of information made its way to HR, the tune was changed. I took my vacation. And then I quit six weeks later. My boss is still there, pulling the same crap with other people. HR doesn't want to hear about it as long as the place it profitable.
Sad to say, the real world just doesn't happen this way. It should, but it doesn't.
That really is stupid. Turnover is a problem and an expensive and destructive one at that. If turnover is high either the pay/benefits are bad/noncompetitive, the working conditions/environment are bad, or as a subset to the previous the manager is managing employees out the door. At my last job the F50 permatemp hell the morale and pay was terrible and more than 50% of team quit in the 3 long years I was there. At my current job we lost 1 or two out of 50 and that was mainly women who choose to be SAHMs.
Poor morale among the employees that don't quit can be an even more expensive problem as disengaged or even actively disengaged workers have much poorer productivity.
That really is stupid. Turnover is a problem and an expensive and destructive one at that. If turnover is high either the pay/benefits are bad/noncompetitive, the working conditions/environment are bad, or as a subset to the previous the manager is managing employees out the door.
Poor morale among the employees that don't quit can be an even more expensive problem as disengaged or even actively disengaged workers have much poorer productivity.
It's baffling to me how often a business can continue losing money on training employees, and their subsequent turnover due to a poor choice in management. It can be incredibly costly. But then again, some employers just don't want the hassle of dealing with it. It's harder to fire someone than it is to manage them out the door....
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Difficult Boss
