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As my dad used to say, The Fair comes in September, and it's $5 to get in.
I don't agree with that attitude. I feel that we all need to fight for what is right, since that is the only way that the word will improve. But an important skill is knowing how to choose your battles, knowing when to fight and when to fold. This is definitely a battle worth fighting, since an employee's medical history is not any of an employer's business.
We have a "no fault" policy at work regarding PTO and absences.
Meaning, every one gets an amount of PTO (pretty generous amount, and the amount of Vacation and what not is seperate) and you can use it how you see fit without having to explain the reason. We actually have a callout line they can call and leave a message, we don't even ask the reason. You also get some unpaid Attendance/Punctuality Points (for non exempts) that you can use, but are subject to Corrective Action at certain levels.
Takes it off the manager from having to decide what is a good reason and what is not. As I said in an Orientation class last week, whether you have the flu or you got turned up last night at the Keith Sweat concert, it doesn't matter, just call in.
I'm a manager and if I have an employee that is a problem regarding attendance, I require a doctor's note when they are out. If they are taking vacation time, that is fine and I don't care what you do. But if you take sick time, I have a right to know that you are for sure sick.
I don't agree. You either trust your employee or you fire him/her. It's not my boss' business to know my medical issues. This is especially true for companies on a PTO system. Besides, sick time is still time that belongs to employees. If they run out of sick time due to being irresponsible and using it for other reasons, that's their problem.
Thanks for all the responses, it's nice to hear both sides of a discussion. I let my boss know it was an outpatient procedure, I'll only be missing one day but I had to tell her it was a medical procedure rather than just a day off or just using PTO because my request would have been denied since another employee was off on this day as well. It was the only day I could get it done which is why I had to let her know it was a medical day off, otherwise, I think she has no right to know and most occasions I do not let her have any details of my life unless I tell her. She's just being nosey but I want her to realize she's crossing the line. We are rarely notified when she is out of the office for a day or if she's having a procedure done, not even one of her employees ask her any details of her life or why is she taking a day off. We simply don't care. We actually work better when she is gone! I want managers to act like adults not like babysitters and let me be a responsible adult that I am.
I see no problem in telling her you need a day off for a medical proceedure and if she requires a Dr.s note, you will be happy to provide one. DONE. No more needs to be said.
A Dr.s note will not read like a fairy tale of what is being done. If it is surgery, it will say "for surgery". If it for illness, it will say "for illness". DONE.
BUt no matter what the medical proceedure was, there is no reason to be shy about it. Even GYN or proctology {are there even any left? aren't they now "Lower G.I. specialists?"} or whatever.{see below**}
I just had surgery on my shoulder, obviously requiring me to have time to heal. 14 days in a sling, then up to a month for adequate Physical Therapy recovery, followed by up to another month of PT. The surgery was the first of March, and I just got my "driving priviledges" back last Friday, a full month later. MOH's {My Other Half} work allows for MOH to take time off for "Family Medical Leave Act" {covered by an insurance}to take care of me {DO NOTHING, not lift a finger for at least 14 days while in the sling}. Since the time of recovery was not "carved in stone" and open ended per Dr.s orders {for up to 2 months}, MOH and I had no problem explaining why. Once I was released to Physical Therapy, MOH could go back to work on the days NOT needed to drive me to PT, and take Family leave on the days I needed a driver.
It was nice for both of us to have time off together, though I couldn't do much!
**This followed MOH having surgery in January for the removal of a hemorrhoid {EMBARRASSING to say the least}, but still had no problems explaining why the time off was needed! Of course, MOH did a play up on "I'm having a pain in the a*s removed" and loved every minute of it! Of course, in all fairness, for the family medical leave for that proceedure it was required to reveal why the leave was necessary and for how long {again, open-ended, depending on recovery}. Probably "surgery" MIGHT have coverd it, don't remember the form's requirements. Anyone who asked though, was just as sure they wished they hadn't asked! The images and the "sympathy pain felt" was enough to make them wish they hadn't!
Convextech, do you have to submit a doctor's note to YOUR boss? I'm ok with it if it goes both ways but if managers don't have to then I think it is outright unfair.
Damn right I do. Get over yourself. You're an employee. When you become an owner of a business you can dictate. But while someone else is paying your check you do what they ask. If you can't deal with it then get another job where nobody cares when you come in or how often.
A doctors note seems a bit extreme but then again you guys make the rules and your employees can vote with their feet.
My guess is that you work with a lot of dubious quality personnell, maybe manufacturing etc. and you have to weed through a lot of people with low skills and often shaking work habits paid low wages. It's easier to just run off some with stiff rules than have to deal with their constant BS.
My dad was a foreman for years and eventually the 3rd shift plant manager before he retired and I heard *a lot* of stories from him about jag-offs he had to deal with over the years.
I think some of the posters here are personalizing the doctors note thing because they are responsible, work in a professional environment and so forth....and have never had the experience of working with a segment of society that ditches work frequently, shows up drunk or high to work, tries to stab co-workers, drinks a 6-pk of beer in their car over lunch etc etc etc.
With that said, unless you've worked in certain parts of the labor pool, I think you should cut Convextech some slack because I don't think you quite understand what it can be like.
I'm a manager and if I have an employee that is a problem regarding attendance, I require a doctor's note when they are out. If they are taking vacation time, that is fine and I don't care what you do. But if you take sick time, I have a right to know that you are for sure sick.
If you require a doctor's note, let's hope your company also provides health insurance.
I personally do not go to see a doctor for a viral illness. It's a waste of my time and money since there is nothing they can do for it. Most companies do not require a note from a doctor unless someone has taken off a lot of sick time, especially if those days are consecutive. Also, the purpose of the note is just as much to reassure the company that it's safe for that person to actually work (especially if they had an infectious illness) as it is to reassure the company that earned, accrued sick time is not being "abused."
Our company asks for a doctor's note after 2 days of sick absence. As an evil manager myself, I have asked a few staff members to provide those notes as they are somehow "chronically" sick. People need to realize calling in sick often can screw up operations for everyone in the department.
I don't agree with that attitude. I feel that we all need to fight for what is right, since that is the only way that the word will improve. But an important skill is knowing how to choose your battles, knowing when to fight and when to fold. This is definitely a battle worth fighting, since an employee's medical history is not any of an employer's business.
On some level.. But, the OP then pointed out that he was asking for time off because someone else is already off that day. If someone in my office came up to me asking for a day off on a day where someone else is already off and we are short staffed, I might ask why... I wouldn't pry, though.
The medical history is not any of their business, but, when you are asking for an exception to be made for you, providing some level of info on why you are asking for that exception is usually key to getting it approved.
HIPPA rules say that the nature of your medical procedure is not necessary to be shared with ANYONE other than staff at your doctors or insurance company personnel. Given the situation that the OP is posting about, in which someone else already was taking a day off and his taking off would apparently leave them shorthanded, I would say that simply stating that you had a doctor's appt would be sufficient. If there were more questions all one has to say is "It's a private matter, I'll bring you confirmation from my doctor's office if that's necessary". End of conversation.
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