Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
My spouse was put on a PIP and he found out nobody had ever survived one. At least not at the large company where he works. PIPs are a firing tool, so that HR can cover their butts. If you do some more research on PIPs you will find out that almost no one ever survives one. You have to start looking for another job.
Exactly. It means they want you gone. I have no idea why people think it means anything else.
Talked to manager this morning after yet another project planning meeting where I spoke up on a couple things I could take and still came away empty handed.
Impression I got is they are likely to demote me and the pay is not going to be what I need. There is work on the support side but the biggest projects on the project side will be winding down at the end of August, at the latest. It seems like they think I'm not seasoned enough for the role I'm in. I had a project to complete Friday - a vendor's website is having problems and the other person in the role huffed and puffed that it wasn't done, until she tried and got the same behavior. This kind of thing will get no better even if demoted.
If demoted, the whole thing presents a can of worms with UI. At this point, I can make the going rate for general IT support staff here back in Tennessee as well. I've had a couple more callbacks this morning. After today's meeting, I'd rather just potentially sacrifice the UI and focus on the job search full time as it doesn't appear I will be out of work long. It doesn't appear I will hang on to this role and at the pay rate I can probably get on short notice here is likely no better than down South, so there is no reason to stay.
At this stage it's more of working out a time to leave than anything else.
Impression I got is they are likely to demote me and the pay is not going to be what I need. There is work on the support side but the biggest projects on the project side will be winding down at the end of August, at the latest. It seems like they think I'm not seasoned enough for the role I'm in. I had a project to complete Friday - a vendor's website is having problems and the other person in the role huffed and puffed that it wasn't done, until she tried and got the same behavior. This kind of thing will get no better even if demoted.
If demoted, the whole thing presents a can of worms with UI. At this point, I can make the going rate for general IT support staff here back in Tennessee as well. I've had a couple more callbacks this morning. After today's meeting, I'd rather just potentially sacrifice the UI and focus on the job search full time as it doesn't appear I will be out of work long. It doesn't appear I will hang on to this role and at the pay rate I can probably get on short notice here is likely no better than down South, so there is no reason to stay.
At this stage it's more of working out a time to leave than anything else.
If they do "Demote" you, and the payrate can't let you make it. THEN I'd suggest you pack and leave. With the demotion and the argument "The conditions of pay/work are unacceptable" means you'd have a protracted fight and while that you may win, you are spinning your wheels trying to collect.
But if you have those "Callbacks" then you may find it's rather a short time without a paycheck.
If they do "Demote" you, and the payrate can't let you make it. THEN I'd suggest you pack and leave. With the demotion and the argument "The conditions of pay/work are unacceptable" means you'd have a protracted fight and while that you may win, you are spinning your wheels trying to collect.
But if you have those "Callbacks" then you may find it's rather a short time without a paycheck.
Right - I think I can come up with something in relatively short order. By the time I leave this place, which is going to be mid-August or so at the latest, and the UI claim makes its way through the system - it may be Late September or early October before I get the first check. I'm thinking I'll have at least something by then.
This is a poor cultural fit to a T. Everyone was cordial today, and the two managers were doling out plenty of advice in a friendly way, almost like big brothers, and in the initial meeting with my manager's manager Friday, we were talking loosely and even laughing a bit. We get along well, but it's not the right fit professionally.
This is basically the money paragraph. The reason you feel like you're struggling and they feel that you're not performing is because you guys don't fit together. This is not a value statement, either. I am not saying that "they are in the right and you are in the wrong." I've worked in environments that were extremely malignant and didn't fit in. But other people did fit in, either because they were equally malicious or because they were much more patient and compliant than me and could tolerate the malignancy. (Those are my opinions only, I'm sure the people in change have a completely different view, of course. )
Once you have identified this, then the only thing that remains is an exit strategy. Trying to fit in is only prolonging the inevitable. If there are no "good" ways out, then you should look for the "least bad" way out. If not, then at some point you'll just be fired. (And again, I don't say that maliciously, since it's happened to me. I'm just saying it as a matter of fact.)
I would accept the idea that the PIP is a 'you are fired' notice and plan accordingly. Start looking seriously for work right now. Ignore as much of your job as you can get away with. If you do not have another job take the demotion and keep taking their money while working on getting a new job. You are far more important to you and your family than these malicious bastards. Take what you need and walk away without notice.
I started a new position in early February. There has been one other person in the role who has been with the company for nearly twenty years, along with at least two additional staff in my role since 2011 - both of those guys either resigned or got fired (not sure which). There are other staff in the department - we have one support person and two other infrastructure guys, who have more generic knowledge than on my role.
The one person that knows the role is virtually covered up from starting time to quitting time and is rarely available to answer questions, validate testing plans, much less train on any of the software we use. Unfortunately, I came from a different part of the industry and don't have much familiarity with the applications we use. When I was interviewing, the manager acknowledged they wouldn't find anyone with that skillset, and were likely going to have to take what they could get.
We don't have test environments for some critical applications, so some things are released directly into production with little validation or testing. It's a small, but growing company that hasn't seemed to scale well with its growth. This is the smallest organization I've worked in by far, and it's been difficult to go from a far more formal, bureaucratic environment, full of documentation and rigorous infrastructure and testing to this loose, shooting from the hip environment.
Because of the "one man only" knowledge and lack of a larger infrastructure to properly test/vet changes, as well as my own unfamiliarity with the applications/lack of formal process/documentation, I'm making errors, and when I follow up to try and get feedback/correction from the other person in the role, there is often no response because she is having to do increased work just with the business scaling as well as trying to fix my mistakes. The manager doesn't know the role well so he can only offer general guidance. They have worked 4/5 of the past weekends on both days - it has horrible work/life balance.
Other than stopping the errors, my manager and my manager's manager told me I need to be more assertive, but I've tried to be assertive with the other team members as far as helping them offload some of their simpler tasks and have gotten little feedback, positive or negative. Some of the problems they mentioned occurred over two months ago, and no one has mentioned it to me until now, and I never knew there was a problem - never getting any negative feedback from my management (aside from an informal ten minute talk at the end of the day) or end users at the close of a project (what few I've been involved in) until a formal PIP. I have never had a direct one on one performance review with my manager since I was hired in. Most of what my manager mentioned on assertiveness and being thorough, I feel as though I already tried, and haven't gotten much of anywhere.
Maybe I haven't been assertive or communicated enough, but I've been met with near silence by the other person in my role. After awhile of communicating with nothing, I've basically given up. This role involves customizing and maintaining a lot of financial software for our firm's needs, and with little to no internal documentation or assistance, I'm likely bound to keep making errors.
At this point, I don't see this working out over the long term. This is a poor cultural fit to a T. Everyone was cordial today, and the two managers were doling out plenty of advice in a friendly way, almost like big brothers, and in the initial meeting with my manager's manager Friday, we were talking loosely and even laughing a bit. We get along well, but it's not the right fit professionally.
They want to reconvene in thirty days. If there is not sufficient improvement, they're either going to terminate me or demote me to a support staff level, according to the PIP - demotion was listed first on the form. I've been pounding the pavement already for a month with some success because I knew this was on shaky ground. I've had various callbacks, etc., but nothing paying to the tune of what I make now. I have no commitments to this area and can move virtually anywhere. I'm going to talk to my previous employer that I left on good terms and who are still hiring for my old role to see if I can get back.
On a more general sense, any demotion/firing is going to wreck my shaky finances already, and I'm only in this metro because I'm getting paid relatively well ($60,000 now - have only made $50,000 before this and it was local). Due to large unsecured debt, I can barely make my monthly nut on $60,000.
Family is willing to let me stay with them back home for awhile until I get back right-side up financially, and I sent a former manager from back home an email and he is willing to rehire me at $16/hr, if it comes to that, so I'm not worried about basic needs, homelessness, etc. I think I could make $40,000 or so about anywhere. Other than that, I'm wanting to go to FL, the Carolinas, or other parts of Tennessee, in basically that order.
Credit score/personal finances are going to be screwed unless I can pull a rabbit out of my hat and make $60k shortly.
Manager did have a demotion to another role possibility on the PIP form other than simply firing me.
At this point, would you...
1) Put in a two weeks and preserve dignity. I have enough cash to cover most expenses for about three months. Local economy is very healthy, but it will run up the cards further.
2) Wait two weeks then put in a two weeks. Basically be on my best behavior for two weeks and appear like I'm wanting this to succeed, then resign, should I survive that long. This gives me extra cash to go on in the interim.
3) Do my best and see how this shakes out. I've given it an honest effort and I don't think I'm what they're wanting, nor is this what I want. If I do patch the immediate bleed, it's not the right fit further on.
If I get fired, I may or may not get UI. Either way, the firing is on my own record.
How would you move forward?
I'm so sorry you are going through this! I had a friend who was put on a PIP and tried diligently to improve her performance. The goal was not to improve her performance, it was to get the paperwork in order to let her go. Everything kept changing as far as the manager's expectations and the support she was promised to achieve the PIP goals was never provided. I kept telling her that she was not going to meet the goals, but she kept believing that if she worked hard enough that everything would be okay. On day 90 of her PIP she was let go for failing to meet the requirements...and she was totally shocked??
I was placed on a PIP after getting a new manager that started a year after I did, and had never worked in this type of environment before. Prior to this, I have ALWAYS had reviews that met or exceeded expectations and always received a raise and bonus.
I was given 90 days on the PIP to meet specific expectations or I would be terminated. I decided to tender my resignation. I spoke with my skip manager (with whom I had worked before the new manager was hired) and we discussed how I was not a good fit with the culture, but that he always appreciated my performance. He allowed me to give a 60 day resignation to seek other employment.
As a result, I have a clean work history and I got out of a bad situation. My skip manager was actually relieved because PIPs are a lot of work for the manager. No one was hired to replace me and the department suffered additional attrition before and after I left.
I think it is best to try and negotiate a graceful exit if at all possible! Good luck to you and do not let this undermine your confidence! I am fully employed and back to getting the good reviews I had always received in the past!
At first, it would seem a stupid thing to do. During yesterday's project planning meeting, I piped up to take on more work and was just shot down. There was obviously no appetite from the team for me to take anything.
After thinking over what the manager said yesterday, it seemed demotion was the more likely offer, and when I declined it, I'd be fired. I simply can't survive on that level of pay here with my current level of obligations and think I can do better, locally here in Indianapolis or elsewhere. Even with nothing but rent, I'd basically be living on $250/week. Even if I accepted it, there's always going to be some level of people thinking inferior of me for being demoted throughout the organization. I told the manager I didn't think I could get to where they wanted me in just thirty days and at this point I'm simply wanting to move on from the role and the area.
I think the manager met with a recruiting firm this morning to replace me - another colleague had a resume on her desk and one of the HR folks stopped by his office asking "how it went." This basically proves to me that I was out already. At least by resigning, I'm not being humiliated with the company wide email "X's last day of employment was today." Someone was canned today with that email and it is always alarming and you wonder WTF the person did.
I never stood a chance at this place. Little documentation, little support, in a complex and customized environment with far more robust security than I saw working at a DoD contractor. I don't know what they were looking for, but it sure as hell wasn't me, on a personal or professional level. I have kept in close touch with colleagues from my last job (most of whom are personal friends) as well as former managers and some clients, so I have a good slate of references.
Since there was obviously no appetite in retaining me, I think I did the best I could by getting out gracefully with my dignity intact and not getting officially canned. I have seven HR/recruiters from other firms that I've worked with this week, so I don't think I'll be out of work long, though it's unlikely most of my unsecured creditors will get what they are due.
I thought I would be more frightened over this than I am, but at this point I'm over it and willing to move on. If things fall apart here, I can at least go back to my hometown and either stay with my parents or at an uncle's second house and find a $15-$20/hr job in the interim.
Best of luck OP. Honestly, who cares what people think. Dignity doesn't pay the bills. Smaller income is almost always better than no income. I hope you bounce back sooner than later.
Best of luck OP. Honestly, who cares what people think. Dignity doesn't pay the bills. Smaller income is almost always better than no income. I hope you bounce back sooner than later.
I echo those thoughts.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
