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I was reading this other thread about guys in their late 20s and 30s who gave up on joining the workforce and just play video games all day.
I just didn't get it and certainly don't condone that choice, but reading through this thread makes thing a bit clearer. It sounds like the hiring process in the fields being discussed is an arbitrary, petty, pointless heap of beaurocratic bullsfit.
I was reading this other thread about guys in their late 20s and 30s who gave up on joining the workforce and just play video games all day.
I just didn't get it and certainly don't condone that choice, but reading through this thread makes thing a bit clearer. It sounds like the hiring process in the fields being discussed is an arbitrary, petty, pointless heap of beaurocratic bullsfit.
That is one biased view, largely divorced from reality.
@oldtrader - good observations and I agree with most except there really are stupid questions. Why would anyone answer honestly about their weaknesses? It's just stupid and serves no purpose, sorry.
What I learned from my short interviewer experience is that it's more effective to try and bring out the best in person, to qualify them for a job instead of "sinking" them. E.g. Once we had a rather dull interview with a young lady that looked like a typical daddy's little princess. But then she mentioned something she was interested in and I asked her more questions about it. You should've seen how she lit up and almost seemed like a different person. She did not get a job but at least no one remembered her as dull anymore. We expect honesty and appreciation from the candidates but it's also what we need to give them.
@oldtrader - good observations and I agree with most except there really are stupid questions. Why would anyone answer honestly about their weaknesses? It's just stupid and serves no purpose, sorry.
You are wrong. Some of the questions asked, are for a reason. Let me give you some.
1: A lot of applicants have practiced for hours to answer all the questions they think they may be asked. You are not really getting to know anything about the person. Kind of like Hillary Clinton saying she had been practicing for the debate not making campaign appearances. Some of her answers she gave last night were not in answer to the question, but to give points she wanted to bring out about herself. This is what happens so often. A lot of interviewees do not really answer the question they are are asked but give answers they have been told to give and have practiced.
To get them off of their practiced answers which really do no tell you anything about the interviewee, you have to throw them some questions that break their practiced routine and start to see the real person and learn what they are like and what they know. These questions are going to be ones they never even dreamed they would be asked. Once you get off their practiced answers, you can start finding what they know, or what they are like.
Many interviewees hate to be asked questions they had not anticipated, and had practiced answers. Once their practiced routine is upset and they have to answer questions that are important mixed with some that are not, they have to stop and think answers and not give practiced ones. So those questions by a interviewer that are not ones that you can practice, may very well be what makes or breaks you as an applicant. The ones that come back from those and are able to answer the important questions are the ones that get the jobs.
2: Some are to see, how you react when something unexpected is happening. How will you react, if a problem comes up. Will you be able to think under stress, or do you just fall apart. Some of those questions will have no correct or wrong answer, but the important thing is, can the applicant come up with some logical sounding answer. It usually sets them up for an important question, and is to throw off their practiced routine and give a thoughtful answer.
Note how many posters tell how they have practice interviews, and how they hate it when asked questions that are not directly related to the job itself. Questions they could not practice. Practiced answers are useless to the interviewer, as they are too often answers that some one else thought up, and are not really answers the interviewee will give on their own.
I never practiced for an interview in my life. I also got every job I applied for, and sometimes got a higher level job than I applied for. I went in with a smiling confident attitude that said I am the man you are looking for, so ask me anything and I will answer it. I was often asked questions I would have been unable to practice for, but was able to handle them with no problem.
You will see 4 categories of people on these threads, and lets look at why they fall into this category.
1: Those that say they do not even get called for an interview, and some of them have sent out hundreds of resumes and applications.
The majority of them are applying for jobs they think would be interesting jobs to work at and make mass mailings of applications hoping to get an interview even though they have no training or experience in that field.
The biggest problem, is they have one size fits all resume, and do not design the resume for that particular job, and show why they would be a good candidate for the job. If you are not making an resume for a specific job you greatly reduce your chances of even getting an interview. You may be in competition with 100 or more applicants, and the ones that will get the interview are the ones that write a specific resume showing what you offer to that company.
2: Those that said they go to interview after interview and do not get the job.
They will show up acting like they are scared to death to be interviewed. When asked a question they have not practiced for, they are lost and unable to answer the question and from then on they are lost. No one wants to hire someone like this. You either convince the interviewer you are the one to be hired or you are no longer under consideration. You have to sell the interviewer on you being the right one for the job. If you don't someone else will.
3: People that said they had numerous interviewees, and finally got a job often not in their own field.
Again this person could not show an interviewer reasons to consider them for the job. Remember there will be numerous applicants for the job that are qualified for it. If you cannot convince the interviewer you are the right one for the job, someone else will. You finally get a job, below your qualifications as you are applying for a job it takes little to qualify for.
4: People that have said they got every job they applied for, or close to it at the worst.
These are the people that have made a good resume that makes them stand out. These people walk in with a confident attitude, a smile on their face, and are ready to answer any question thrown at them. They answer professional questions as asked, as well as any other question thrown at them. They give the interviewer the feeling, they are the one they want to hire, and you will be a good fit with existing team. They are often offered, a job higher up the pay scale than they applied for that was coming available soon. Or offered to beat out any other competition that may want to hire you.
They are usually asked a lot less questions than other applicants, and their interviews last less time than others. The applicant knows he wants the job and will be a good hire for the company, and the interviewer feels the same about the applicant starting right after the interview starts. For good jobs no matter what it is, this is often the competition you are up against for the job.
Many interview questions are begging for an articulate line of BS, and the dishonest articulate interviewee is happy to dish up a steaming pile of it.
I have to take exception to that. I happen to be a good interviewee, I have good communication and people skills. I have good work skills, period. The fact that I can articulate that does not make me a BSer. I am not making anything up I am simply capable of thinking on my feet and expressing my thoughts in an intelligent way, both of which are traits that make me a better candidate than someone who can't, since those are valuable skills in any job (and that is what they are looking for).
After a week of interviewing ten people, no one has stood out and we are going to have to re-advertise and start over.
Sounds like you guys are really lousy at interviewing. These are regular people applying for a regular job, and all you are asked to do is hire someone who is competent.
What do you expect? Think up some better questions.
The interview is a two-way street. The applicant is interviewing the company just as much as they are interviewing him/her.
Thank you. I just had a panel interview last week and by the time it was over, I realized I would not want to work there. The place was an under-construction dump and the interviewers looked burned out and virtually comatose. I did not see one person on the panel who looked excited, sharp or enthusiastic. Even if they call back and offer it to me, I am not going to take it. I left feeling kind of gross. It would not be a cheerful place to work, and I am kind of happy I figured that out at the interview and not down the line. A panel interview reveals a lot about the institution as well, and if they look bored or like they are expecting to be entertained, then that tells you a lot. So in a way, if you are paying attention, a panel gives you a big glimpse into your future at the workplace. I actually like panel interviews for that reason. Also, they are taking a long time to get back to me (9 days so far), which has also worked in my favor. I was really excited at first and would have taken it if they had offered it to me within 48 hours, but now that I've really had a chance to think carefully, I know it's just not a good fit.
I agree with you. I have seen panels utilize the job interview as a chance to get little passive/aggressive digs at another department.
Example....I was interviewing for a S.W. position in a long term care facility. It became very obvious during the panel interview that Recreation was getting the treatment from other departments, because almost all questions from those particular employees was about the relevance of recreation....They nearly applauded when I shared my positive views of Rec and the elderly....It was obvious it would be walking into a sh--t storm when the interviewers were looking smugly at the other departments almost like lil kids, saying..."See told you"
And, it was very helpful to me in deciding I didn't want that position!
Please post an official government regulation, preferably from the CFR saying that it is illegal to ask age. You won't find one because it doesn't exist.
It is illegal to discriminate based upon age. You can ask it, you can know it, you can make an educated guess about it, or the candidate can volunteer it. All perfectly legal. But you cannot refuse employment based upon it.
Whereas my citation is an official government website hosted by the very department in charge of investigating age discrimination claims, you are citing a number of secondary sources pitched to the layperson. That is fine, most people are not experts and dumbing down the advice makes sense. But if you want the actual law, goto the Feds. Your secondary sources are well intentioned but incorrect.
I will repeat myself from an earlier post. It is really stupid to ask about age in an interview. There is no good reason to do it, and you risk antagonizing ill-informed applicants such as yourself if you do. If somebody does file a discrimination lawsuit, the fact that you asked the question will be used as part of the finding. However, if no discrimination is evident, the mere act of asking the question has no criminal or civil penalties.
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