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And that is pretty much in line with the % of immigrants in the US.
You didn't think the only immigrants that were coming into the US were low skilled workers did you? If 25% of doctors are immigrants, and about 25% of the total US population are immigrants, it seems like it immigration laws are doing okay at selecting who comes in
Where do you get this stat and how many of that 25% are legal immigrants?
The problem is while people that have not been paying into the Medicare/Medicaid system are coming in to be financial beneficiaries from it, the domestically trained individuals that HAVE BEEN PAYING INTO THESE SOCIAL PROGRAMS are struggling to become TRAINED PHYSICIANS.
Do you not see the problem there?
This nation is not taking care of their own. This is one example where they truly are "taking our jobs".
Give us that desire to work in this field the chance to succeed.
Maybe when you need care down the road you'll be able to understand your Doctor when he/she speaks.
the foreign ones weren't "draining" the system either before they came to the US. If you are talking about people paying into it.
no I don't see your point. It isn't "your job". They were jobs that "no one" were taking to begin with. It's like a mess and someone cleans it up and you get mad because it was "your mess". Well clean it up yourself then.
If you want to stop HB visas, then find people who are willing to work in those jobs first. Alabama couldn't find people to work the farms after HB 56. They thought they would get all these "american" workers, but they showed up and decided the work wasn't for them.
These doctors didn't get hired because there was a line of primary care physicians wanting to work in rural America. They got hired because the current Americans didn't want to first be primary care docs because of lower wages, and second, they didn't want to live in a rural setting. You would rather the rural Americans go without healthcare because of your "moral" grounds of not hiring a foreign doctor?
California at least provides free tuition (grants) to people wanting to become primary care doctors. How many other places are doing anything to cover the shortage besides whining about it?
@old guard, I provided the link in the qoute, no clue on the "legality" of them
@old guard, I provided the link in the qoute, no clue on the "legality" of them
Well legality would be a big issue to me.
Here are some problems:
Bringing in people to work jobs at the expense of current use citizens. This hurts two ways, it drives down the wages of employed Americans and also puts more stress on our social systems who now have to help unemployed or unemployed Americans.
Bringing in people who do not care for this country.
Bringing in people who now will get rights of citizens which coupled with a national healthcare system drains public funds paid for by Americans.
Bringing in people who become citizens who then bring in more people to become citizens with little or nothing to offer.
the foreign ones weren't "draining" the system either before they came to the US. If you are talking about people paying into it.
no I don't see your point. It isn't "your job". They were jobs that "no one" were taking to begin with. It's like a mess and someone cleans it up and you get mad because it was "your mess". Well clean it up yourself then.
If you want to stop HB visas, then find people who are willing to work in those jobs first. Alabama couldn't find people to work the farms after HB 56. They thought they would get all these "american" workers, but they showed up and decided the work wasn't for them.
These doctors didn't get hired because there was a line of primary care physicians wanting to work in rural America. They got hired because the current Americans didn't want to first be primary care docs because of lower wages, and second, they didn't want to live in a rural setting. You would rather the rural Americans go without healthcare because of your "moral" grounds of not hiring a foreign doctor?
California at least provides free tuition (grants) to people wanting to become primary care doctors. How many other places are doing anything to cover the shortage besides whining about it?
@old guard, I provided the link in the qoute, no clue on the "legality" of them
Ok i'll make it clearer and break it down step by step for you.
I've been paying into social funding for 20 years. A foreign trained Physician hasn't paid into at all until they are beneficiaries of the system. Do you grasp this concept now?
There are plenty of American workers that will work in rural settings, the problem is the BARRIER OF ENTRY in this country for domestically trained Physicians.
Why not increase the number of Medical Schools training Physicians in this country? Increase the number of residency spots? Decrease the costs/increase the incentives for domestic-trained Physicians to work in this area.
To suggest that it's merely a lack of ambition on the part of domestic-trained Physicians is pure ignorance. 40% of Medical School applicants DO NOT get accepted. It's never been more competitive to get into a program. I have a 3.7GPA and advisors are telling me how I could enhance my application.
Domestically trained Physicians run to SPECIALTIES because of the financial COST of Medical School. Those that set payments in Washington can EASILY HELP CORRECT THE IMBALANCE. ALL reimbursements to providers are based upon the rates of Medicare. Private insurance uses it as a guide.
There is a logical solution to the problem, and it isn't hiring more HB Physicians.
You are talking to the wrong person if you think you can successfully pull this argument off.
I've spent YEARS researching this and have invested THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS into the process. Not whining. This a mere fact. There is a financial reality that you can continue to ignore if you'd like. Plenty of people living in ignorance are doing just that.
I am currently a Pre-Medical Student.
Is there anything else I can clear up for you to educate potential voters in future elections?
You have no debate, you would shoot your foot out of spite for stubbing your toe. The HB is meant to cover a shortage, remove the shortage, and you have no need for the "band-aid"
your solution is what? to let people in rural america go without healthcare?
I told you what I thought should be done instead of getting rid of HB visas. I even gave California as an example.
You post about the financial costs, then provide financial aid for people attending medical school to be primary care doctors, as California does. Doing so will fill the rural doctor shortage, and hence, get rid of the need for HB doctors.
Increase medical schools, sure go ahead. But what does that have to do with HB visas? Nothing. Want to lower the cost of med school? Great. What does it have to do with HB visas? Nothing
Want to know something about residency? All the med students who fail their first choices can "scramble" and get a primary care residency. You should look at the matching system again. The "talk" about not enough residency spots for med students is not entirely correct
There they can match to whoever wants them. If they choose to not take the offer, that's their choice. But do not say that the medical students were "crowded" out. They merely choose to not take the offer.
which domestic doctors are being replaced? The foreign doctors are taking jobs that are empty. There were no doctors there to replace, they are actually "filling" the spots.
Quote:
I am currently a Pre-Medical Student.
So what? someone with an art history degree can get into medical school as well. How does you being a student qualify your views on it any more than someone who is not a student or a student of any other study? What does you being a pre-med student have to do with HB-1 visas anymore than someone who dropped out of high school and now work in a factory?
You have no debate, you would shoot your foot to out of spite for stubbing your toe. The HB is meant to cover a shortage, remove the shortage, and you have no need for the "band-aid"
your solution is what? to let people in rural america go without healthcare?
I told you what I thought should be done instead of getting rid of HB visas. I even gave California as an example.
You post about the financial costs, then provide financial aid for people attending medical school to be primary care doctors, as California does. Doing so will fill the rural doctor shortage, and hence, get rid of the need for HB doctors.
Increase medical schools, sure go ahead. But what does that have to do with HB visas? Nothing. Want to lower the cost of med school? Great. What does it have to do with HB visas? Nothing
Want to know something about residency? All the med students who fail their first choices can "scramble" and get a primary care residency. You should look at the matching system again. The "talk" about not enough residency spots for med students is not entirely correct
There they can match to whoever wants them. If they choose to not take the offer, that's their choice. But do not say that the medical students were "crowded" out. They merely choose to not take the offer.
which domestic doctors are being replaced? The foreign doctors are taking jobs that are empty. There were no doctors there to replace, they are actually "filling" the spots.
Yes I'll break it down for you and others to clearly understand.
"your solution is what? to let people in rural america go without healthcare?"
quick facts:
40% of applicants to Medical School aren't getting accepted. Of the 40%, the majority could make it academically. The GPA for the average Med School applicant is 3.7.
The average cost of medical school, which is more for DO schools than MD schools which are more primary care oriented, is over 200k tuition. I can provide a webpage that shows the tuition rate of each program. $50 thousand dollars of tuition debt per year is not uncommon. You're government programs in CA, if you researched them, are providing tuition reimbursement at a level of giving me a penny for my mortgage payment. This is not whining. This is merely presenting the facts.
Just ask ANYONE that is currently in Medical School WHY they do not want to go into primary care.
The answer is simple. The money. The student loan DEBT is too high. The reimbursement rates are DECLINING. How many doctors do you know that can't run their clinic with accepting Medicaid patients?
The answer is not having the Foreign trained workers replacing domestic ones. The answer is providing the correct incentive for Physicians to enter Primary Care.
This at the political level can be done by the strike of a pen. ALL reimbursement follows the construct of how much Medicare is paying recipients.
Once again you do not know what you do not know, and the ignorance of people in this nation is doing some major damage.
By all means, continue the discussion.
You won't win this debate. You fail to listen to people that have invested time and money in this process, and SEE this happening first hand.
And we wonder why our nation is in the predicament that it's in.
If you want medical coverage by domestically trained Physicians in rural areas, all that has to be done is the modification of reimbursement rates from social funding which can be done at the strike of the pen by administration.
The answer is NOT bringing foreign workers over to take these positions. Anything than a very short term usage of this labor force hurts the nation.
You have no debate, you would shoot your foot out of spite for stubbing your toe. The HB is meant to cover a shortage, remove the shortage, and you have no need for the "band-aid"
The problem is not what it is meant to do but what is actually happening.
Thank you for posting! Pre-Medical student here! I've never been more disillusioned.
It feels like the deck is stacked against domestically trained Medical Students. To amass $300k+ debt from training, adding to that the lack of opportunity to obtain a residency spot in the desired field of practice is just too much for me to reconcile.
I mean how can one get into SO MUCH DEBT, and spend SO LONG IN INTENSE TRAINING putting off life goals like having a family, to NOT WORK IN THE SPECIALTY OF CHOICE, and with FOREIGN WORKERS filling positions over domestic ones?
It ALL starts with POLITICS folks. Time to put the pressure on WASHINGTON to do something about this. Thankfully we have someone as the President now that shown a concern for DOMESTIC WORKERS. If the others did, WHY DO WE SEE WHAT WE DO NOW?
It is YOUR taxpayer dollars and YOUR Healthcare we're talking about.
Only people who will rise to average, believe it starts with politics, those at the top of the field care a less about politics and laws limiting competition. They welcome competition as an opportunity to show they are better, not just better than one set of people but better than all the people in that field.
You have nothing to worry about, the top people in your pre-med class will get into med school, the top med school grads, will get a residency. Here is the trick, be at the top. If you are not willing to put the time and effort into being at the top, don't spend $300k+, and look for an easier career.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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In our small city of 60,000, the doctors at the clinics and only nearby hospital that I have run into lately have mostly been from India. It seems to make sense, though, since our population is now about 30% Asian, most of those multi-generational families from India. I have no idea if these doctors are on visas or are citizens, but I just ran some of them on the staff information site which gives their medical schools. Of those from India that I checked, they went to Ohio state, Johns Hopkins, University of Toronto, Western University (London, Ontario), University of Washington, and many other U. S schools. I had to scroll through several pages to find one that went to school in India (Kakatiya Medical College). I suspect that many of these doctors came to go to medical school and stayed to practice here, and probably have become citizens by now.
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