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At our company you can be terminated for discussing pay.
They say that, but how will they know you are talking about pay? Do you put a sign up to say you talked about it. There are discrete ways to find out pay. And it is in your benefit to do that so you can make an informed decision.
This doesn't mean you volunteer the info, but it is good to validate with your peers where possible and peers in your role and industry.
Everyone I have told wishes we would have talked about it earlier, and felt empowered by the info. Each used that info to negotiate a raise. So it sounds like a win to me.
One thing I notice in my profession (which btw, is seeing increasing numbers of men -- I love how the men in that other thread jumped all over my post assuming it was all women "feminists" in my workforce ),
even though its pretty well paid (although so arduous not many work a full 40 hours weekly, at least not 10years in), the women are supporting children, adult children, extended families, and in a lot of cases-- their husbands.
And, of course the CEO and the Financial officer, and the administration (who are NOT working their a..s off in the trenches, and getting work related injuries) --
are all men. None of the workforce are getting any profit sharing bonuses or what-not thats all the guys (yes GUYS) at the top.
So sorry OP.
Last edited by CAjerseychick; 03-16-2017 at 03:11 PM..
Reason: left out a word
In my 20's I did not see the glass ceiling. I heard about it, I read about it but I couldn't relate to it. The sky is the limit and if I apply myself enough I can get there. I saw equal amount of men vs. women in my near vicinity. If anything I saw more women than men.
But then as I got older and moved up the corporate ladder, I noticed less and less females in the meeting. The lunchroom had plenty of female but in those "higher level" meeting sometimes I was the only one. I wasn't even a high level employee, I was a notch above entry-level position and even then the heard thinned out. It became male dominant. When I looked at management level, the women number went down even more. As I moved up the ladder, the more aware I became of lack of female. As I hit 30 and got married & thinking about having baby, I realize why so many women never moved up from entry level position. I too am not expecting any promotion in near future, I want to focus on personal life. Guys that were several level below my position 5 years ago are catching up to me & passing me by. I know by 40 the tide will turn & they will be in management position while I will still have the same job I had today. I don't feel bad because it is personal choose. But sometimes I am shocked & sad because I had very promising future in my early 20's & I was outdoing all the guys my age. Now I am at the same level as the guy who started several level below me & soon they will pass me by.
It is there. It is real issue. You are not in the age group to notice it. The problem isn't start of our career, women do great at that stage. The problem is maintenance over the years. We give up or don't get break. Look at your senior level, management level, CEO & see the man vs. women ratio
One thing I notice in my profession (which btw, is seeing increasing numbers of men -- I love how the men in that other thread jumped all over my post assuming it was all women "feminists" in my workforce ),
even though its pretty well paid (although so arduous not many work a full 40 hours weekly, at least not 10years in), the women are supporting children, adult children, extended families, and in a lot of cases-- their husbands.
And, of course the CEO and the Financial officer, and the administration (who are NOT working their a..s off in the trenches, and getting work related injuries) --
are all men. None of the workforce are getting any profit sharing bonuses or what-not thats all the guys (yes GUYS) at the top.
So sorry OP.
I work in a department (marketing) that is generally dominated by women* but the role I have - systems/process oriented - is dominated by men.
It is really interesting because where did the men come from? They have most come from outside of most of the marketing roles. Sometimes they even pick engineers to do my role that don't understand marketing at all. Because it is "systems" and only engineers understand systems I guess.
It is a little weird how even in women dominated fields and departments, some roles do not match the gender norms of the rest of the department!
But as you yourself said you took off to have children and other things. I bet if women put their nose to the grind stone and really put in as much over time, hours, days, months, years etc as men things would look a lot different. If a good percentage of women take time off for whatever reasons why is it men's fault that the ones that don't eventually make up the majority in the higher levels?
This doesn't appear to be true, it makes no difference. I live in a region where most professionals wait to have kids and many women don't want them at all. There are still pay gaps. You can't blame kids because few people have taken off for that reason. It is a convenient scapegoat.
I work in a department (marketing) that is generally dominated by women* but the role I have - systems/process oriented - is dominated by men.
It is really interesting because where did the men come from? They have most come from outside of most of the marketing roles. Sometimes they even pick engineers to do my role that don't understand marketing at all. Because it is "systems" and only engineers understand systems I guess.
It is a little weird how even in women dominated fields and departments, some roles do not match the gender norms of the rest of the department!
gender roles,,,,and positions,,,im seeing those all blown away,,
I'm seeing not only mostly women teachers but principals,,,,,same with nurses,,,,mostly women,,and my son graduated as a pharmacist this spring and 80% of his class with women (and minorities) which is great,,,however,,,when he went to interview for 5 jobs,,,(he was in the top 5% of the class) he was turned down 5 times in a row ,,because they "needed more minorities" "not white men" .. so much for white privilege
he did finally get a great job,,,so I am proud...
id like to throw my own personal experience out
I supervise over 50 retail stores and I have promoted and trained many many women in untraditional women jobs.....with many success stories that I'm proud of,,
but this is what I see in upper management- as the poster above stated ...women get quite thin towards the top..
many top level positions you need to sell your soul to the company,,,,working weekends and answering phones all hours of the night,,,ive heard many ladies tell me " I will stay in middle management because I can enjoy and see my kids" they have been offered high management jobs but turned them down to watch their kids play sports on weekends or nights
mothers are more natural nesters than men (just my opinion) many professional ladys ,,when they do have a child,,,want to be a stay at home mom to be with their child)
lots of high management positions require much travelling and even moving to another location many months a year,,,,,,,something many moms/women refuse to do (not all)
ive also seen women get pushed up the ladder too quickly because she was a women and not on merit,,and she fell flat on her face.....it was the companies' push to have top women managers..
here's something you wont hear much,,,just being blunt
some "harassment & culture" laws/rules/policies have gone too far,,,,,they(h.r) tell us men,,,,,,watch every word you say to a woman,,,dont take a woman employee out to lunch never comment on anything social or what shes wearing,,,,,, never ever joke around or curse..... don't even talk sports in front of women,,,because you can alienate her because she may not like sports....and this is a form of harassment..... don't talk politics...religion,,,,, don't invite anyone for a birthday party ,,, unless you invite everyone...and never ever send flowers of appreciation to a lady....because the other ladies didn't get them and will feel alienated,,and this is a form of harassment..... never have a woman alone in a mans office ....and on and on
so all these b.s. rules..... when a lady comes in a meeting,,,,,, all these rules apply,,,,
and men have to filter every word they say as to not offend,,or alienate someone ..
none of this b.s. applies to other men..
and yes its a place of business,,,,so this shouldn't mean much,,,, but in reality it does..
many vp's get together on the weekend,,,,go on trips, just so much more involved and complicated with a woman...
lots and lots of headaches and commitment at the top its your life..
again...ive pushed many many lady's in management position,,have a soft spot for single mothers trying to work their way out of poverty...
but the weight and balance of a family is usually heavier on the lady/mother than the dad/father ... maybe this is a part of the equation that still isn't fair ....but the super-woman who tries to be great at everything,,,mother,,,clean house,,,career,,,,, something will give..
most women ive known want balance of middle management but not the vp responsibilities....that's why there are less woman on top.. (in my opinion)
seeing their kids on the weekends means more than extra money
In my 20's I did not see the glass ceiling. I heard about it, I read about it but I couldn't relate to it. The sky is the limit and if I apply myself enough I can get there. I saw equal amount of men vs. women in my near vicinity. If anything I saw more women than men.
But then as I got older and moved up the corporate ladder, I noticed less and less females in the meeting. The lunchroom had plenty of female but in those "higher level" meeting sometimes I was the only one. I wasn't even a high level employee, I was a notch above entry-level position and even then the heard thinned out. It became male dominant. When I looked at management level, the women number went down even more. As I moved up the ladder, the more aware I became of lack of female. As I hit 30 and got married & thinking about having baby, I realize why so many women never moved up from entry level position. I too am not expecting any promotion in near future, I want to focus on personal life. Guys that were several level below my position 5 years ago are catching up to me & passing me by. I know by 40 the tide will turn & they will be in management position while I will still have the same job I had today. I don't feel bad because it is personal choose. But sometimes I am shocked & sad because I had very promising future in my early 20's & I was outdoing all the guys my age. Now I am at the same level as the guy who started several level below me & soon they will pass me by.
It is there. It is real issue. You are not in the age group to notice it. The problem isn't start of our career, women do great at that stage. The problem is maintenance over the years. We give up or don't get break. Look at your senior level, management level, CEO & see the man vs. women ratio
Yep, in engineering the women are less likely to do significant continuing education (as in graduate level/400 level mathematics or engineering), get their professional licenses etc.
On the management track they wont go get their MBA or their PMP etc.
Because these activities take up significant out of work time to accomplish and if you have small kids at home studying for a PMP or a PE is not usually a priority.
But as you yourself said you took off to have children and other things. I bet if women put their nose to the grind stone and really put in as much over time, hours, days, months, years etc as men things would look a lot different. If a good percentage of women take time off for whatever reasons why is it men's fault that the ones that don't eventually make up the majority in the higher levels?
I had a supervisor who when given the choice preferred to hire women over men. While men would put in "more time," he felt that women were by and large far more efficient than the men because they did a lot more in the time they were there than the men. They always had to prove themselves.
I have seen clear differences in treatment of men and women in my workplaces. If a man has to pick up his kids at 3:30 from the daycare, that's fantastic. Those men are seen as diligent fathers and shoot up the ranks. Three of the men I know who did that were praised and made it up the ranks. When women do that, the daycare closes at 6 so why are you leaving at 3:30? One actually continued to leave at 3:30 even though his wife and children had moved to another city and he had no need to pick anyone up anymore.
We can't reward men for the same behavior that penalizes women. Period.
This doesn't appear to be true, it makes no difference. I live in a region where most professionals wait to have kids and many women don't want them at all. There are still pay gaps. You can't blame kids because few people have taken off for that reason. It is a convenient scapegoat.
The pay gap for those women is likely so low as to be statistical noise.
I am 28 and one thing that is quite apparent to me is that at least in my age group, women seem to be doing much better than men. They have an easier time finding jobs, getting paid well, less likely to be stuck in a dead end job, getting perks etc etc.
Nowadays, women have the upper hand on MANY different levels! Employment, relationships/dating, clothing, you name it! Society holds men and boys to a much higher standard than females, and a much smaller percentage of males are able to meet such standards than their female counterparts.
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