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Old 10-03-2008, 01:18 PM
 
3,031 posts, read 9,086,083 times
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This is not a black/white situation. I had something similar happen to me where I wrote up a letter of resignation and I was asked to leave that day and given my 2 weeks pay. I didn't consider myself fired (and I had another job waiting). But I've also been in a position once where I wrote up that same letter of resignation and was asked to leave that day and was NOT given my 2 weeks pay. I filed for and received, UI.

If the boss accepted the letter of resignation and did not ask the employee to leave that day, then I think he implicitly accepted the terms. By letting him go a few days later, I think he fired him. But I'm not a lawyer. I think you need legal advice.
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:53 PM
 
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The employee resigned and was not fired. My company requests that employees give 2 weeks notice. That is the norm for most businesses. But we rarely keep the employee for those 2 weeks and often ask them leave immediately and pay them for the 2 weeks. If they don't give us a 2 week notice, they are not paid for the 2 weeks. Secondly, when we offer employment to a candidate who is currently working, we expect that they won't join our firm for at least 2 weeks since we would hope that they give their current employer the courtesy of a 2 week notice. If they didn't, we would question their judgement and assume that they would do the same to us one day.
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Major Metro
1,083 posts, read 2,292,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinsativ View Post
Im the Purchasing Mgr, and sometimes I have helped in HR. The CEO of the company I work for asked for my input on an employee he had received a resignation from on 9/12/08. The employee's last day would have been 9/26 (2 weeks notice) The CEO said ok on the 12th, and then on the 17th, told this employee, that he was accepting his letter of resignation and making it effective today. I told the CEO that since the employee's letter had a condition for his resignation, that he had just fired him. The CEO got beligerent, argued with me, raised his voice, and I tried to show him the logic. He demanded I get back up info. I went to several websites, and even got our HR asst from ADP to state it in a phone call. The website I copied said that if the company had a policy of "requiring" two weeks notice then he had fired him since he didn't give him the two weeks. I showed him this, and he argued more, because our handbook states, although advance notice isn't required, they request 2 weeks notice. I tried very calmly to let him know, Im just giving you info, the guy will file for UE benefits and will probably get them. He argued more, then when I told him I would like to talk to him more about this, he got louder, I got a little louder, and then he told me to leave, and I said I felt we should finish this discussion, he said he would finish with me late, I left and said No, there was nothing more to say, we had nothing more to talk about, and left. I got suspended for 3 days. Insubordination, arguing with the boss. He's always right, no matter what. I shoulda known.
Anyway. anybody want to chime in? The guy quit, or get fired? This is in Texas.

When I have a manager disagree on a legal issue, I try looking for a similar legal case and say something like, “I came across this case which is similar to what we have. What do you think?” Then we discuss how doing the right thing will help avoid this. In other instances, I check with my legal group (in-house or external) and use them as the "bad" guys. 95% of the time I can influence the outcome with no fuss but if it looks like it's going to get heated, I take this approach.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
When someone resigns, there are many legitimate business reasons to not have that person stick around for two more weeks. It's perfectly legal to accept a resignation effective immediately. A company does not need to pay the person up until the planned "last day" but only for time actually worked.
It's also very rare that employee handbooks say giving two weeks' (or any other time period) notice is required. It usually says that this is expected or preferred, or that unless you give the proper notice, you're not eligible for re-hire, something like that.
The employee can then TRY to get UI, but then he has to claim that he was fired, and who wants that on their record? The company will say he resigned, and when giving references in the future, will also say it was a resignation. Having a termination on your record may not be worth the pittance you'll get for two weeks of UI.
Besides, people usually quit jobs when they have gotten a new job, so it's not like the person will be out of work.
Agree with your explanation. That happens a lot and I have run this by many sources including our legal team. If you’re in a state like CA, you need to be prepared to immediately hand them a check for time worked if you’re deciding to let them go that day.
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Old 10-04-2008, 04:18 AM
 
485 posts, read 1,839,678 times
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Most large progressive companies will pay the employee for the two week period if the manager tells them to leave immediately. It is an official termination for unemployment insurance purposes but they could not collect unless they did not start the new job. Then if they asked for their old job back and could not start, then they could collect unemployment.

I had a similar situation happen to me and I collected unemployment for the two weeks before I started the new job. (Though many states make you wait a week to collect)
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Old 10-04-2008, 02:07 PM
b75
 
950 posts, read 3,462,771 times
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It doesn't matter - you are incorrect in your advise. The CEO is allowed to move his end date earlier then initially offered for a myriad of reasons that don't even need to be revealed. It doesn't negate the resignation already in place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinsativ View Post
Yes, you can accept it, immediately, I agree, but to wait 3 days after, then state, I want to make it effective today, not pay thru to the end of the two week period. This was my statement to the CEO. Had he accepted it on the date presented, OK. Or had he paid the employee thru to the end of the 2 week period, then that would have been the acceptance of the resignation, my belief is, the CEO fired the employee since he didnt pay him thru the end of the 2 weeks, nor did he have cause to let him go prior to that. No misconduct, A letter of resignation states Im going to quit on a certain date, not Im quitting today, as long as you keep doing your job you should still have it.
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Old 10-04-2008, 06:52 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,823,165 times
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He got fired but you should have let it go at the right point instedd of arguing . He is the boss afterall. He would have learn eventually when they had to apply unemployment most likely.
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Old 10-04-2008, 09:18 PM
 
13,784 posts, read 26,245,461 times
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He resigned. If the CEO said he was making his resignation effective immediately then he was just expediting the process. If he had said he was terminated and given reasons for the termination then he was fired.
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Old 10-05-2008, 02:09 PM
 
Location: NW San Antonio
2,982 posts, read 9,833,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
He got fired but you should have let it go at the right point instedd of arguing . He is the boss afterall. He would have learn eventually when they had to apply unemployment most likely.
Oh, trust me, I tried to stay out of it, this guy, CEO, is one of those control freaks, he had to be right, and since I had some info that showed he had made a bad call, he kept on calling me into his office everytime he found something else on the net that had anything different, no matter how vague about quitting and resigning. He asked my advise ahead of time, I gave him my opinion against terminating the guy without paying him thru to the end of the 2 weeks, or he might be eligible for UI benefits for be fired. That made him furious, it was his company, and he was damn well going to do what he wanted to whom and when he wanted, so I tried to back out as nicely and calmly as I could. That was the first of 3 meetings. The 3rd was where I got suspended for being "insubordinate" he couldnt prove me wrong anymore, so he proved he had more clout than me because he was the person that had paycheck power.
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