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It is when you can only make like 3-4k a year max because your going to school full time (unless your lucky enough to get a decent internship early in college but most internships are given to juniors to see if they want to hire them after they graduate their senior year). If that 50k in school does not pay off your up crap creek without a paddle unless you were able to pull it off without loans.
There's people who are in their 60s and older going for bachelors degrees.
There's people who are in their 60s and older going for bachelors degrees.
It's not all about $ all the time.
Yea, but you dont see too many in their late 20's or early 30's going back for a second degree, its because either their first degree worked out or their bagging groceries to pay their bigillion dollars in student loans off because they cant find a job in what they went to school for. I learned this comming from a poor family and making it on my own by the skin of my teeth, if you dont have a family safety net you get one shot and if it does not pan out your bagging groceries with massive debt, these people usually fall into drugs being prostitutes or soliciting prostitues because what self respecting woman will be with a man who bags groceries AND has massive debt and possibly live at home .... that is the real world for alot of people. Since I knew I only got one go at it I did engineering because statisticly that was my best chance, only rich kids or the foolish have any buisenss making a gamble with art degrees, sure some make it and have the portfolios and all that but what kind of back ground did they come from, did they have to worry about loans, or was all that taken care of and they just studied and had mom and dads house on the beach if things dident go well at graduation or if they could not compose a rockin portfolio at graduation?
Thoes in their 60's going back are either sucessful from their first degree and doing it as a hobbie or they just finished paying off their loans bagging groceries and figure they dont have much to loose at this point their life is 3/4 of the way over. There are a few in between that had a successful run and then got laid off just short of retirement but they likely have money to go back to school or to retrain.
There is not too much in between unless someone is from a wealthy family, and then it does not matter anyways.
Its not all about the money until you dont have any AND you have a mountian of debt.
Yea, but you dont see too many in their late 20's or early 30's going back for a second degree, its because either their first degree worked out or their bagging groceries to pay their bigillion dollars in student loans off because they cant find a job in what they went to school for. I learned this comming from a poor family and making it on my own by the skin of my teeth, if you dont have a family safety net you get one shot and if it does not pan out your bagging groceries with massive debt, these people usually fall into drugs being prostitutes or soliciting prostitues because what self respecting woman will be with a man who bags groceries AND has massive debt and possibly live at home .... that is the real world for alot of people. Since I knew I only got one go at it I did engineering because statisticly that was my best chance, only rich kids or the foolish have any buisenss making a gamble with art degrees, sure some make it and have the portfolios and all that but what kind of back ground did they come from, did they have to worry about loans, or was all that taken care of and they just studied and had mom and dads house on the beach if things dident go well at graduation or if they could not compose a rockin portfolio at graduation?
Thoes in their 60's going back are either sucessful from their first degree and doing it as a hobbie or they just finished paying off their loans bagging groceries and figure they dont have much to loose at this point their life is 3/4 of the way over. There are a few in between that had a successful run and then got laid off just short of retirement but they likely have money to go back to school or to retrain.
There is not too much in between unless someone is from a wealthy family, and then it does not matter anyways.
Its not all about the money until you dont have any AND you have a mountian of debt.
Yea, but you dont see too many in their late 20's or early 30's going back for a second degree, its because either their first degree worked out or their bagging groceries to pay their bigillion dollars in student loans off because they cant find a job in what they went to school for. I learned this comming from a poor family and making it on my own by the skin of my teeth, if you dont have a family safety net you get one shot and if it does not pan out your bagging groceries with massive debt, these people usually fall into drugs being prostitutes or soliciting prostitues because what self respecting woman will be with a man who bags groceries AND has massive debt and possibly live at home .... that is the real world for alot of people. Since I knew I only got one go at it I did engineering because statisticly that was my best chance, only rich kids or the foolish have any buisenss making a gamble with art degrees, sure some make it and have the portfolios and all that but what kind of back ground did they come from, did they have to worry about loans, or was all that taken care of and they just studied and had mom and dads house on the beach if things dident go well at graduation or if they could not compose a rockin portfolio at graduation?
This isnt the case at all. There is a shortage of work in general in the U.S. Majoring in Engineering in this economy is far from a shoe in for a long term position. The landscape of the workforce is changing. Engineering is increasingly outsourced, and what cant be automated in the medical field is boiling down to a glut of nurses accepting mountains of responsibility, working beneath a few doctors. One could easily turn a blind eye to the positive aspects of the field and say that only the rich and and foolish have any business making an investment in an engineering degree if they wanted to focus solely on the outsourcing, the burnout, and the automation of the engineering field. Likewise, there is currently an oversupply of pharmacists which means that although Pharmacy is a STEM field, rather than art, majoring in chemistry, mathematics, and biology is about as much of a gamble as any art field nowdays, even with internships and fellowships. However it makes no sense to consider a student pursuing a PharmD foolish. Art production as an actual employee is moreso about having a style that is valued, having a stream of new ideas, and the ability to communicate a company's message through that style than it is luck. You can either do it consistently or you cant.
Last edited by solytaire; 09-11-2011 at 10:17 PM..
This isnt the case at all. There is a shortage of work in general in the U.S. Majoring in Engineering in this economy is far from a shoe in for a long term position. The landscape of the workforce is changing. Engineering is increasingly outsourced, and what cant be automated in the medical field is boiling down to a glut of nurses accepting mountains of responsibility, working beneath a few doctors. One could easily turn a blind eye to the positive aspects of the field and say that only the rich and and foolish have any business making an investment in an engineering degree if they wanted to focus solely on the outsourcing, the burnout, and the automation of the engineering field. Likewise, there is currently an oversupply of pharmacists which means that although Pharmacy is a STEM field, rather than art, majoring in chemistry, mathematics, and biology is about as much of a gamble as any art field nowdays, even with internships and fellowships. However it makes no sense to consider a student pursuing a PharmD foolish. Art production as an actual employee is moreso about having a style that is valued, having a stream of new ideas, and the ability to communicate a company's message through that style than it is luck. You can either do it consistently or you cant.
Dang it I keep punching a wrong sequence of keys and it hits the back arrow and I loose my post lol. Anyways I think that what it boils down to is the cost of education, as long as you can do all these things with little to no debt then its fine because if you graduate into unemployment you can just go back to school and try again, but if you have massive debt you only get one go around. The access to student loans has driven up the cost of education and thats the root of alot of this nations problems, no one can retrain because its way to expensive and having debt and unemployment is a recipie for personal financial disaster, people know this and they are not taking the gambles any more because its not paying off for enough people, only the super genious that can "do it consistantly", how consistantly did even einstine come up with stuff, relativity, photo electric effect so should he get to collect 2 pay checks and go to a soup kitchen from there, the companies that exploit these ideas from artists are users, if your THAT good of an artist you should be getting a cut of the corporate profits to the sum of millions but they dont because corps know they can low ball people and people will take it. If you had your bread and butter you could hold out for what you are worth. If people had the tight family networks and had their bread and butter jobs the artist could say well I want X and if I dont get it you can pee up a rope and im going to go back and do Y with my family or other good job or whatever.
The problem is employers are paying the best of the best what the run of the mill employee should be paid (more or less) and the run of the mill employee is becoming a marginalized sub class of society, the extremely tallented are still being exploited and getting a raw deal. The guy that came up with the bud commercials should be getting 10% of the total corporate profits with the total dollar amount never being less than 7 figures, but I doubt he/she is. If I do something THAT good I should not have to consistently perform, one or 2 grand performances should be enough to retire on. Of course corporate greed will get theirs in the next life, what they do to people will not be without consequence, thats what I believe anyways. What goes around comes around.
Also I have worked with H1 visa "engineers" and they are not all that, they had to be baby sat. If its outsourced its even worse because they likely dont have US degrees and the work is sub par. I know BP is wising up to this as well as buying steel from china, we have a core group of engineers at the top that know better than to low ball themselves into another catasrophic incident. China has a BAD problem with intellectual dishonesty at the highest levels of their "acadameas" which basicly boils down to plagerising, they are not even taking seriously by any of the credible scientific or engineering communities/societys, india is a little better but not much. India at least has a hand full of super stars and a few nobel prize winners.
There's people who are in their 60s and older going for bachelors degrees.
It's not all about $ all the time.
Yeah, I have been thinking about it but probably won't.
Being a senior citizen my tuition is cut to $10/credit hour.
The brilliance of state government who comes up with these plans sometimes stuns me.
House paid for? Check
Zero debt? Check
Good job with steady pay? Check
Six figures in savings/retirement accounts? Check
Social Security/pension cash coming in while still working full time? Check
Ability to save more than $2,000/month just because there's nowhere else to spend the money? Check
65 years old and will probably never use the degree? Check
Yeah, I have been thinking about it but probably won't.
Being a senior citizen my tuition is cut to $10/credit hour.
The brilliance of state government who comes up with these plans sometimes stuns me.
House paid for? Check
Zero debt? Check
Good job with steady pay? Check
Six figures in savings/retirement accounts? Check
Social Security/pension cash coming in while still working full time? Check
Ability to save more than $2,000/month just because there's nowhere else to spend the money? Check
65 years old and will probably never use the degree? Check
So I get tuition that is nearly free?
Seriously, who makes up these policies?
They dont try to hammer thoes with options because they know they cant, they hammer thoes without options because they know they can. Young people are easy to exploit because they are just starting off in life, the only ones that are difficult to exploit are thoes that have a strong family safety net and dont have to subscribe to loan shark behavior.
But in our society most young people are thrown to the wolves and this is the fall out of that mentality. People would not be desperate to work for free if they had a substantial safety net.
Also I have worked with H1 visa "engineers" and they are not all that, they had to be baby sat. If its outsourced its even worse because they likely dont have US degrees and the work is sub par. I know BP is wising up to this as well as buying steel from china, we have a core group of engineers at the top that know better than to low ball themselves into another catasrophic incident. China has a BAD problem with intellectual dishonesty at the highest levels of their "acadameas" which basicly boils down to plagerising, they are not even taking seriously by any of the credible scientific or engineering communities/societys, india is a little better but not much. India at least has a hand full of super stars and a few nobel prize winners.
I've seen American companies go bankrupt because of this kind of stuff. One shop stockpiled tons of Chinese steel because it was dirt cheap. Well, when they would use it and send the final goods out, orders we're being rejected left and right. The quality of the steel was too low, and it wasn't even 4140 grade like ordered. Basically it was just random junk steel melted down and sent out way on the cheap. The company thought they we're going to get the one up on the competition on that one... Serves them right, big dummies.
If you wanna know how China is REALLY big problem though... Just wait till they steal your latest and greatest ideas... And then try to get their government to do something about it... Oh wait, it ain't America over there! Dealing in America costs premium for a reason. We punish dishonesty in business (when we catch it) and we protect the rights of businesses. We have strict standards that must be followed to protect consumers. China... How many toxic toys is it gonna take to realize, cheaper isn't always better?! Businesses have been slowly figuring these things out. The allure of the jackpot profits will always suck some down the drain though. China will go bust if they do not get their act together. Plenty of businesses there have been dropping like flies.
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